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Author Topic: Wireless drums?  (Read 2826 times)

Mike Caldwell

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2019, 12:03:40 am »

Instead of spending serious cash on a wireless drum mic system I would take a close look of how your complete system is packaged and look for ways to improve that to save time.

As for rack mount mixers, the UI24 is good and also look at the Allen Heath QU Pac.

Rodrigo C Goncalves

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2019, 12:33:15 am »

Instead of spending serious cash on a wireless drum mic system I would take a close look of how your complete system is packaged and look for ways to improve that to save time.

As for rack mount mixers, the UI24 is good and also look at the Allen Heath QU Pac.

The big time killer is running the cables between the drums and the console + mixing drums again every single gig.
So the first idea was just getting a loop to at least have all the drums inputs at where the drums are and run just one big cable to the console.
But then as I considered it, I thought, why not take the opportunity and build myself a little rig for when I do stuff outside the band?
And thus this thread was born.

Yeah it's looking like it'll be either the Ui24 or the X32. QU Pac is twice the budget...
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2019, 01:30:51 am »

The big time killer is running the cables between the drums and the console + mixing drums again every single gig.
So the first idea was just getting a loop to at least have all the drums inputs at where the drums are and run just one big cable to the console.
But then as I considered it, I thought, why not take the opportunity and build myself a little rig for when I do stuff outside the band?
And thus this thread was born.

Yeah it's looking like it'll be either the Ui24 or the X32. QU Pac is twice the budget...

Can we walk through your your setup on your drums?  I just don't understand why it is so time consuming.  Pinning a kit your size is a 10 minute exercise, especially since you can label the snake and loom.

Don't use the internal router of any mixer, they are very low performance and very susceptible to interference.  They also have a sensor that detects when you need them the most and then fail.

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Steve M Smith

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2019, 03:32:44 am »

So, lemme see. The Ui24R has an onboard router. X32 would require a separate router in my rack, right?


All of them with on board routers should be used with separate routers.  Those built in are terrible.


Steve.
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2019, 05:13:31 am »

Honestly we can mic up a 6 piece DW running 16 channels in 10-15 minutes? What does your mic setup look like?

Also you may need to get some sub snakes and then make some custom looms. This doesn't need to be difficult. Shorten the cables that you already have to the point where you drop your sub snake and then tape/tie/lace the most convenient cables together.

Generally for me I have a loom for OH L and tom 1(you can probably add snare and kick to that) and then another for Tom2 and OH R(you can add tom 3 to that). I then have separate ones for the snare (top and bottom) and for the two floor toms(remember big kit). I don't run a hats mic, correct OH placement and a competent drummer makes that useless.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2019, 08:08:19 am »

For a standard set up I'll drop a 12 channel sub snake at the drums, that will pick the drum inputs and some back line. I have made some shorter cables to go from the drum mics to the sub snake. Depending on your mic choices put some 90 degree female connectors on your drum cables to allow for more clearance in tight spots and it looks cleaner as well.

 

Rodrigo C Goncalves

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2019, 08:13:32 am »

Can we walk through your your setup on your drums?  I just don't understand why it is so time consuming.  Pinning a kit your size is a 10 minute exercise, especially since you can label the snake and loom.

Don't use the internal router of any mixer, they are very low performance and very susceptible to interference.  They also have a sensor that detects when you need them the most and then fail.

Right. So the mics are the Sennheiser e600 kit. So no mic stands other than the overheads.
Here's the rundown:
- Kick has a KELLY SHU mount, the mic stays in there. I run the cable from the vent at the top of the kick, using the MAY system.
- Snare, rack toms 1 and 2 on their own stand, and floor tom use the 4 mics in the set attached to their rims
- Overheads

Doesn't sound like much, I know. And with the whole band running cables and plugging in, it really doesn't take more than the mentioned 10-15 minutes, but because the only mixer that's being used, both for monitoring and FOH, is on stage with us, the cables have to all run around the drums (the mixer is always to my right side because that's where Rob the guitarist/engineer stands).
On my left I have my little mixer just to have a level for my click track and monitoring everyone else in my wired in-ears, and an iPad which is how we play the backing tracks.

So it's 7 XLR + 1 stereo RCA to mini jack for the iPad, going all to the left of the drumset then around behind me to the mixer on my right side.
That side is also usually where the entrance/exit to the stage is, so we have to tape all those cables to the floor there so we don't trip on them etc.
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Rodrigo C Goncalves

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2019, 08:14:11 am »


All of them with on board routers should be used with separate routers.  Those built in are terrible.


Steve.

Ah HA! Good to know.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2019, 12:15:31 pm »

Since you are mixing for the one band / drums, you can save your scene/mix in the UI or XR so you don't have to start from scratch each show.  Levels, effects, dynamics, monitor mixes, routing can all be saved.
Given a consistent line-up, you would basically be plug and play, other than the venue differences.
BTW, the UI has one of the best interfaces out there, super configurable.
As to the built in WiFi, they work fine until they don't.  When the UI has dropped out, it just stops controlling things.  Re-connecting causes no audible problems.  But an external router is definitely more reliable.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 12:19:26 pm by Dave Garoutte »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2019, 03:21:39 pm »

Hi Rod, and welcome to the LAB forums.

As you have studio background you might want to borrow or hire the Senny system and record your drums with them, and then record using the same mics with wired connections.  Compare and contrast and you'll hear why Erik Jerde said what he did in reply #7... well, sort of.  At the US$5k mark the wireless is getting darn close to a cable but at the prices most of us can afford the step down in quality is apparent.

For the most part, time saving is found in pre-packaging the mics, DIs and cabling.  If your band sets up the same way most of the time this will likely give you a much better result than wireless mics on the drum kit.  Cable looms and sub-snakes are your friends and since this is for the same band with (hopefully) similar physical set up each time, you can customize the looms & subsnakes to your needs.

If you use a drum rack rather than individual stands you can affix the drum mic cable loom to it for transport; you'll not need to do anything but mount your mics, plug them in, and then plug the loom into the mixer/sub snake/digital snake box.  Build a loom of mic cables to run to stage left and stage right from your on-stage mixer; only 1 thing to coil up at the end of the night.  Get Z-Bars for the guitar amps, hang a Senny e906, etc to get rid of GTR mic stands.  Run a sub-snake down front to pick up the downstage vocals, horns or keys, etc.  If a general area needs more than 1 mic cable it's probably worth building a loom or if the cable run length is over 25 ft or so a sub-snake is probably better.

Delegating tasks to the band members is important, too.  In a celebrity impersonation show I worked with the cast was responsible for setting the front line monitor wedges, running the speaker cable loom to them and plugging them in, running a down stage AC power stringer for fans and performer "practicals", and setting out any mics and stands the cast used.  The orchestra (band) members were responsible for anything within an arm's reach of their performance area.  Wedge, mic stands, helping run looms or sub snakes, stage AC power.  I did all the patching at the main snake and did a line check from the monitor console as we went along.  From the time we had AC power to stage left, audio was ready for sound check and rehearsals in <60 minutes.  Around 38-42 inputs, 8-10 piece orchestra, 5-6 cast members.  And that 60 minutes included putting out set pieces and risers, but not final dressing of the stage.

There is a sticky thread at the top of the Lounge index about the best way to integrate a band IEM rig with a house or festival PA system.  I mention that because there is much discussion of how to package for speedy deployment and compact transport & operation.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

Edit ps: I see you're in the UK.  You'll have to do the metric conversions... ;)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 03:24:22 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2019, 03:21:39 pm »


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