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Author Topic: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?  (Read 1219 times)

James Liddle

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I have been getting more requests to run sound for outdoor events and outdoor restaurant gigs and as a result I am looking to upgrade from my current RCF 312A mains to the RCF HDM 45-A. The problem is I am at a loss as to what sub would pair well with these. My budget is around $5K for subs (including covers and casters for whatever I buy) and I am currently considering two of the RCF Sub 8004-AS but am concerned they might not be enough to keep up with the HDM 45As. I can also get two SRX828sp for a little less and even three would only be slightly more than two 8004.

So for the past few days I am thinking "well if you need more than two 8004 you might as well just buy the three srx828, or even step up to two 8006". I am kind of stressing about it. Part of me is wondering if I need a reality check, do I really need six 18 inch subs to match two main speakers? It has been suggested to me that the RCF subs sound better than the JBL and I am already buying RCF mains so I would kind of like to stay with the RCF family, but if two 8004s are going to be horribly inadequate than I need help deciding which direction to go. I would appreciate any input on this, or even other suggestions for subs. Thanks!
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Rick Powell

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Three subs would be an odd deployment, but outdoors you usually need a little more to make the same oomph as indoors. I don't have personal experience with the 8004s but they are not regarded as a particularly loud box. Two JTR Orbit Shifters (a 139dB-capable folded horn box that goes sub 40Hz) and a suitable power amp would be within your budget and would outperform a pair of 828s. I'd try to get some opinions on the 8006 from real users, a matched-brand system designed to work with each other is a plus, but I see that they list for almost your budget for one. Maybe a used pair?
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Luis_Marquez

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If you are set on rcf and have not picked up the HDMs , Id suggest you post in the marketplace as WTB HDM-45 and 8006 for pricing. There are several dealers here that could get you better prices than online. Also some members here can direct you to production companies that are turning over inventory. ex. Rcf 8004s

As Rick said, JTR Orbit shifters are serious subs. I have no experience with them but I do have a pair of JTR c212pros. Very nice, compact subs. Their are two pairs of Orbit shifter for sale in the marketplace(April) plus a little extra for a nice amp within your budget.
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Geert Friedhof

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One 8004 isn't enough.
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Bob Faulkner

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The SRX828sp would be way undersized for the RCF HDM cabinet.  Looking at the specs, the 8004 would work, but the 8006 would be "the" choice out of the ones you listed.
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James Liddle

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Thanks for the insight everyone. I am working with a dealer who posts in these forums who has been very helpful. Checking out the Orbit Shifters now, does anyone know if the price on the website includes shipping? I am tempted to stretch my budget and get two of the active ones so my entire system would remain active.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Part of me is wondering if I need a reality check, do I really need six 18 inch subs to match two main speakers?subs. Thanks!

The answer here is this: it depends.


For a singer strumming an acoustic guitar, you don't need any 18"s.

For EDM with sine waves all night, you'll need more subs than you brought. Unless the venue has literally fallen apart, those guys will find the red lights on anything.

To give you an idea, for the EDM nights at an 800-cap indoor venue I used to work at, we found the 3x 2x18"s a side Nexo Alpha system to be slightly lacking in low end output, and added another 4x 2x18"s and a few more of the 15" folded horns that cover the "kick" section.

Someone always wants more bass.

IMO, for a 15" main speaker a side, a decent 2x18" a side is a good place to start. If your events start heading towards those that need more bass, that's the time to start looking for more subs.

Chris
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John Schalk

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JTR also sells a double 18" sub in both powered and unpowered versions.  You can read a thread on the Captivator 218PRO in the subwoofer forum.  When pricing the RCF subs, don't forget to include caster kits and covers.  As a reference point, someone is asking $2k each for used 8004 subs with casters and covers on FB near me.  The 8004 is an older design from RCF, so I'd think you'd really want to consider the 9004 unless it's totally out of your price range.

How many you need is really dependent on the style of music you will be working with and how loud you need the system to get.  But, as a general guide, a 15" + 4" voice coil top box requires at least a double 18" sub under it to keep up for loud, live rock music.  The main reasons for going with single 18" subs are flexibility and portability.  But, they only make sense if you're going to be doing enough events, weddings maybe?, where you just need full sound, but not loud and full.  Pretty much everyone's double 18" powered sub is a better value than buying a pair of their single 18" subs (from the same line.)  One forum user here came up with a nice compromise; she has two SRX818sp and one SRX828sp subs giving her the flexibility to bring as much sub as the gig requires.
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Tim Hite

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I've been steering people this direction for a while now. A pair of single 18's and then add double 18's as needed. Give you a lot of flexibility for smaller gigs. You can always rent more double 18's for bigger shows.

That being said, I'd be looking at the RCF SUB 9004/9006 over the 800x boxes. The 9000 stuff is really stellar in comparison.

As someone else said, get in touch with me or one of the many other RCF dealers on this forum to get your pricing.

One forum user here came up with a nice compromise; she has two SRX818sp and one SRX828sp subs giving her the flexibility to bring as much sub as the gig requires.
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Roland Clarke

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Bearing in mind its a restaurant, any of the options would be enough.  Its down to your price.  The orbit shifters are serious speakers but cut off around 37hz.  The JBLs wont do that, but are a great double 18 for the money.  The RCF are of course a perfect match, but are more money.  Its about the economics and the return on the investment, if and when you you come to sell.
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James Liddle

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Re: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2019, 01:29:47 pm »

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and help. I did research everything listed. I was sent a few videos of the 8004's in use by other forum members and this has been very helpful. Based on the jobs they were used on in the videos I am starting to think two will be enough, at least for now. I plan to try a pair and let my bank account recover. If I need more after a few months of using two, I can add a double 18 like the 8006 and have scale-able options. But from watching the vids there is a real possibility I won't.

Also thanks to the vids, I am thinking the HDM 45-A might be more than I need and am now leaning towards the HD 32-A Mark IV. Anything I use these new speakers for will include the subs so I am not sure I need the 15 woofer in the main speakers. One of the vids also had the NXL 24-A over the 8004s and I really liked how the video sounded (although I know I can't rely on YouTube and headphones to get an accurate read on these speakers). Looking at the outdoor jobs I am hoping to add, a wider dispersion might prevent me from the need for additional side fill speakers. From what I have been reading it also sounds like the NXL 24-A is able to provide sound over longer distances without the need for extreme volume right in front of the stage. Obviously they cost more than HD 32-As, but I see the NXL 24-A as a possible "never need to upgrade in the future" option. I just need to decide if they are worth it. Anyone have insight on using both HD 32-As and NXL 24-As and want to offer an opinion?
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2019, 05:13:19 pm »

I own 8004 with HD32 mk4, and can tell you that the HD32 will outrun a single 8004, but when i couple the 8004 with the tt25cxa the coupling in the lower mids is much better. It still sound great btw. Make sure to change the polarity on the 8004.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2019, 06:47:03 pm »

The RCF HDM-45 is a pretty nice speaker, but given its spec., I think a set of JBL SRX828's would do you more than just fine. If you are going for the whole 4X sub power to mains ratio so you can have a +16db hump of bass content, then yeah you may want a more capable set of subs. I too would prefer to stay within a family of speakers, meaning the 9004 is probably the best option if you ask me. The 9004 has RDNet and is the newest offering in that family. The 8004 is no slouch and would compliment just fine I think. You have to really asses what your end goal is. I think one sub per HDM would keep up just fine for anything that you would desire to use the HDM for. I will be honest though in saying that if you really want to save a few bucks, the JBL SRX828's would definitely give you lots of boom for the buck. They sound really good too. They may not be the best sub, but they are the best sounding sub you can get for that kind of money.
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Matt Greiner

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Re: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2019, 11:33:38 pm »

Not sure of your location, but perhaps there is a LAB'er near you that has some of the models you've mentioned (and some you haven't) that you can go and hear in person.

I'm (potentially) in the market for some new gear myself, but I am unfortunately at least a 2.5 hour drive from a major market.  Before I make the step up, I fully plan on making a trip to hear some demos before I purchase.  I've been told (and I completely agree) that it will be money well spent. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2019, 01:56:41 pm »

Not sure of your location, but perhaps there is a LAB'er near you that has some of the models you've mentioned (and some you haven't) that you can go and hear in person.

I'm (potentially) in the market for some new gear myself, but I am unfortunately at least a 2.5 hour drive from a major market.  Before I make the step up, I fully plan on making a trip to hear some demos before I purchase.  I've been told (and I completely agree) that it will be money well spent.

Yep, spending some money to avoid a bad purchase decision is money will spent.

I've flown/driven many miles to audition some purchases and have saved my employer $$$ avoiding inappropriate gear.  On the flip side I've spent 6 figures on know gear, sight unseen.
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Tim Hite

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Re: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2019, 05:24:23 pm »

Anyone have insight on using both HD 32-As and NXL 24-As and want to offer an opinion?

There is an NX32a, which is a wood box version of the HD32a. It's a much better option. Less resonant and way more durable than the plastic box versions. It's a relatively small bump in price over the HD for a huge bump in quality.

There's also an NX45a which is the 15" version of the top. I'm much less objectionable to putting in 15" tops if you don't have to move them.

NX32a/SUB8004 is a fine combination.

On the NXL24a the tops can run away from the subs at top volume. Not sure if it matters in your case. A big consideration on the column arrays is the frontal profile. They don't block sightlines like a trap box.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 02:40:35 pm by Tim Hite »
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Luis_Marquez

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Re: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2019, 09:42:49 pm »

Just a heads up. In the market place is a pair of rcf hd-32a mk4 with covers and a pair of JTR C218pros for sale. Might fit you needs and budget.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Which Sub to go with RCF HDM 45-A? SRX828sp, SUB 8004-AS, or 8006-AS?
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2019, 03:34:53 pm »

Just a heads up. In the market place is a pair of rcf hd-32a mk4 with covers and a pair of JTR C218pros for sale. Might fit you needs and budget.

For less than $6000 youd be hard pressed to find a more capable system of that size.
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