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[Jay Michael Tetz]

I mentioned IG"3"T as being comparable to JTR's. I don't see in my post where I said where they compare to Danley or K-Arrays costing much more money.
 Ease data show 4.5 db increase between 1 and 2 combined with the IG4T. 129.7 up to 134.2.

Although it has to be joined a lot of good information here. dB Technologies ES and INGENIA users group at Facebook.

A very windy day and lower quality phone video it looks like but not too bad a sound. This user said he was using this system for 800 to 1000 people depending.
https://www.facebook.com/371069353615/videos/10154842280948616/

The best thing with 4 boxes it can be scaled up or down as needed.

Douglas R. Allen

Thanks Douglas, the design of these are really quite amazing.  Looks like they put a ton of thought into the design with great ability to scale to needs.  Def taking a better look at these, the price is right for sure.

[Jay Michael Tetz]

Ricci's Skrams look like a great sub. 
Since you are already going DIY, I strongly second Caleb's PM90 suggestion.
Having owned both the 3TX and PM90&60, there is no comparison.
The PM boxes are easily twice as loud, and have the mid-bass punch the 3TX lacks. (All crossed at 100Hz)
They are a pretty easy build, too.

Thanks Mark and Caleb.  Mark, I have read that build thread a few times and it does look like a great option.  I suppose where I get hung up is the complexity of the processing and fir implementation.  How are you running yours? Did you go all the way with full processing? Would it still be a great box with lesser dsp integration?  The build would be easy to do, I have access to a cnc so not afraid to get dusty

[John Schalk]

Regarding the dB INGENIA series, there are a couple of YouTube videos out there which demonstrate how they are designed to stack on a sub using a plate that screws into an M20? socket, and then there are another set of adapters that couple two stacked speakers together.  I was really impressed with how solid the resulting stack is.  They are on my short list.

Regarding options, Fulcrum's DX series is an un-powered line that closely resembles their top of the line powered offerings, but for a lot less money.   In fact, there are four DX1565 speakers for sale in the Marketplace now, although the seller wants to sell his entire system.  The DX line can be very cost effective, especially if you can get them used, because Fulcrum offers presets for lots of DSPs and amps allowing you to optimize for cost on that side of the system.

Be sure to let us know what you finally end up going with

[Douglas R. Allen]

Regarding the dB INGENIA series, there are a couple of YouTube videos out there which demonstrate how they are designed to stack on a sub using a plate that screws into an M20? socket, and then there are another set of adapters that couple two stacked speakers together.  I was really impressed with how solid the resulting stack is.  They are on my short list.

Yes they can be stacked or flown.
They also have RDnet and fir filters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeUv4qmAqeU

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ig4t&view=detail&mid=970DD6D80EB8EEC10C9E970DD6D80EB8EEC10C9E&FORM=VIRE

Douglas R. Allen

[Mark Wilkinson]

Thanks Mark and Caleb.  Mark, I have read that build thread a few times and it does look like a great option.  I suppose where I get hung up is the complexity of the processing and fir implementation.  How are you running yours? Did you go all the way with full processing? Would it still be a great box with lesser dsp integration?  The build would be easy to do, I have access to a cnc so not afraid to get dusty

Hi Jay, for home playback use I run full out FIR processing. 
But for live gigs, especially important ones that I want immediate simplistic redundancy, I just use a PLD amps built in processing.
And it sounds great ! Not all that far from the FIR stuff.

I think the PM90/60 processing needs are often overstated....I sometimes hold myself guilty there.... ballyhooing FIR so much. 
I just couldn't believe how easy it was for a beginning tuner like me to get near perfect results with FIR.

But really, the PLD has only 5 PEQ's per channel. And it works well (used of course with the rest of the PLD's normal speaker processing functions)
 

[Robert Lunceford]

I mentioned IG"3"T as being comparable to JTR's. I don't see in my post where I said where they compare to Danley or K-Arrays costing much more money.
 Ease data show 4.5 db increase between 1 and 2 combined with the IG4T. 129.7 up to 134.2.

Although it has to be joined a lot of good information here. dB Technologies ES and INGENIA users group at Facebook.

A very windy day and lower quality phone video it looks like but not too bad a sound. This user said he was using this system for 800 to 1000 people depending.
https://www.facebook.com/371069353615/videos/10154842280948616/

The best thing with 4 boxes it can be scaled up or down as needed.

Douglas R. Allen

Hey Doug,
I am not criticizing the IG series speakers. They are a great product and I have used them quite a bit since purchasing them. I did notice that you were comparing the IG3T to the JTR but my impression is that the IG4T is the top of the line in the IG series, at least they are the most expensive.
Here is an instance where the specs on paper don't match to my own personal real world experience. The IG4T has a published max spl of 132db, the SM80 is 134db. I can tell you from my own personal use that the SM80 output far exceeds the IG4T and holds together much better at a distance. 
The IG4T has many strengths. I like the asymmetrical horn design, the 110 degree horizontal dispersion, sound quality, and form factor. You can stack them vertically, but when you do, there is no easy way to get them up in the air. You can stack them on double subs but the horns will still only be up at around 7 feet.

[Douglas R. Allen]

Hey Doug,
I am not criticizing the IG series speakers. They are a great product and I have used them quite a bit since purchasing them. I did notice that you were comparing the IG3T to the JTR but my impression is that the IG4T is the top of the line in the IG series, at least they are the most expensive.
Here is an instance where the specs on paper don't match to my own personal real world experience. The IG4T has a published max spl of 132db, the SM80 is 134db. I can tell you from my own personal use that the SM80 output far exceeds the IG4T and holds together much better at a distance. 
The IG4T has many strengths. I like the asymmetrical horn design, the 110 degree horizontal dispersion, sound quality, and form factor. You can stack them vertically, but when you do, there is no easy way to get them up in the air. You can stack them on double subs but the horns will still only be up at around 7 feet.

  IG4T's and IG3T's have the exact same spl output. The IG3T goes deeper as it is a 2-10 inch woofer design. Ease data shows 129.7 db's output for a the IG4T and 127.3 db's for the SM80. SM80 is on the top left, IG4T is at the bottom left in the enclosed picture. A single IG4T seems to have close to the smoothest response of the bunch and lower cost too.  I'm unsure why you continually compare a SM80 to a IG3/4T. For the cost of a single SM80 before any amp or amp with processor is purchased to run it you can purchase 2 IG3T's.  For the cost of 2 SM80's you can have 4 IG3T's with 134db coupled output per pair. They can be used full range if needed , in singles on stands or doubled on subs and don't need amps to be purchased to process them. 2 SM80's are far out of the OP's budget.
  I have compared my IG4T to a stout 15 and horn speaker and it came out on top.  I do know also any sub around 32 inches or so high will put the first horn on my IG4T above the head of an average listener and the inverted horn much above that. If needed they can be flown as all Ingenia boxes can. I don't know how tall the OP's subs are but if they are into DIY I'm sure they can manufacture what they need to get them up to the needed height.
  The SM80's I've heard are a great box but a person needs a great budget to put them to work. I wish there was a way to compare a IG3T to one just for fun. Have you heard a IG3T?

Kindest Regards;
Douglas R. Allen

[Bill Hornibrook]

Second,  Josh Ricci's newest design the Skram.
http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/742-riccis-skram-subwoofer-files/
Both are based on the B&C 21sw152.   In the end we decided to go with building 4 of Skram designs, pretty much the same low freq performance but with cleaner and punchier upper frequency range.     

I don't want to derail this conversation too much, but if you haven't built all 4 yet you might want to start with just two. A few years ago I put two of these same B&C  drivers in simple bass reflex cabs  - basically for use in a  4000sq' nightclub where I was the DJ. Contemporary club music - mostly hip-hop, trap, and reggaetón based Latin.

They totally swamped a room this size. The sub-40 drones common in new hip-hop would vibrate wine glasses off their overhead racks, and they'd crash to the floor if the bartenders didn't keep pushing them in. Same in the kitchen. A stack of dinner plates suffered the same fate once, but usually back there it was the pots and pans. I thought for sure I was going to get in trouble with the owner for those dishes, but the place was making too much money I guess.

I'm sure cabs designed by Josh Ricci are going to outperform my simple bass reflex boxes. Anyway just a thought...

[Jay Michael Tetz]

Hi Jay, for home playback use I run full out FIR processing. 
But for live gigs, especially important ones that I want immediate simplistic redundancy, I just use a PLD amps built in processing.
And it sounds great ! Not all that far from the FIR stuff.

I think the PM90/60 processing needs are often overstated....I sometimes hold myself guilty there.... ballyhooing FIR so much. 
I just couldn't believe how easy it was for a beginning tuner like me to get near perfect results with FIR.

But really, the PLD has only 5 PEQ's per channel. And it works well (used of course with the rest of the PLD's normal speaker processing functions)

Thanks for that info Mark, that is encouraging.  What PLD amp are you using?

[Jay Michael Tetz]

I don't want to derail this conversation too much, but if you haven't built all 4 yet you might want to start with just two. A few years ago I put two of these same B&C  drivers in simple bass reflex cabs  - basically for use in a  4000sq' nightclub where I was the DJ. Contemporary club music - mostly hip-hop, trap, and reggaetón based Latin.

They totally swamped a room this size. The sub-40 drones common in new hip-hop would vibrate wine glasses off their overhead racks, and they'd crash to the floor if the bartenders didn't keep pushing them in. Same in the kitchen. A stack of dinner plates suffered the same fate once, but usually back there it was the pots and pans. I thought for sure I was going to get in trouble with the owner for those dishes, but the place was making too much money I guess.

I'm sure cabs designed by Josh Ricci are going to outperform my simple bass reflex boxes. Anyway just a thought...

they do indeed move a bunch of air! And sound good doing it.  I've got a couple shows on them so far and I find they can be tamed to applicable power pretty easy and still sound fantastic
 

[ProSoundWeb Community]