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[Sean Anderson]

Thanks for all the responses.  Good suggestions.

The SPL ratings have all been within range of each of the cabinets.  SPL is important, but quality (sound and build) are very important.  And hope that a cabinet can do a much better job with "thump & punch" than the XLF.

I feel like a broken record sometimes and I really like RCF gear, but the JTR really shines in both build and sound quality. The Rhino lining on the JTR is really tough, the sub is very light, and it is solid. The thing sounds really good.

Routinely this winter, I used a single JTR c212p in a variety of small-medium size bars with funk, classic rock, and modern rock bands. It never let me down and I never felt that I was approaching the limits. I had one band bring an extra sub, an old EV, after I told them 1 would be fine in the space and would fit their budget. They wanted to add it to my system. It is a pub I provide sound at 2-3 times a month and a band I had mixed before on house systems. So, I wasn't worried. I asked them to give the JTR a chance. After the gig they were so happy with the sound from that single sub. These things punch, have depth, and respond really well to eq.

I recently acquired two RCF nx-45a. I'm still dialing in the system, but it seems like two c212p per side will be just  perfect for those tops. I feel like the tops and subs are close to equal in spl, but I never like to push my gear to the edge. I have prx712 also. One c212p per side is plenty of/way more than enough sub for those tops . But, any speaker can match to any sub. That's why they have volume controls. 

Additionally, data-bass did measure the c212p. At 2m they found the long term average to be 126db from 40-100hz. Hypothetically that means the sub puts out 132 db at 1m.

That said, I don't think you'll be disappointed by the RCF offerings mentioned here. They will match your tops if you care about that. And from a practical standpoint, the RCF subs have a high-pass output if you are not using an external crossover for your RCF tops. The JTRs only process themselves. That may make your decision easier.

[Bob Faulkner]

Appreciate the responses.

Yes, the Yamaha and RCF cabinets I use did overrun the PRX sub, however, I kept everything under control so as not to allow those situations to occur.  The xover settings/levels are all managed with a drive-rack.  I rarely ever use the built-in xovers on subs.

[Debbie Dunkley]

Appreciate the responses.

Yes, the Yamaha and RCF cabinets I use did overrun the PRX sub, however, I kept everything under control so as not to allow those situations to occur.  The xover settings/levels are all managed with a drive-rack.  I rarely ever use the built-in xovers on subs.

Bob -  you are welcome to come and hear my SRX818's and SRX828. Maybe you could come to a local show?
If you were looking for a LOT more SPL then I wouldn't necessarily suggest these but your original post was more to do with definition than volume.
The SRX800 series subs will go a bit louder for sure than the PRX series but will GREATLY improve that thump you are looking for. You do get more defined and lower lows with the SRX and it might be just what you are looking for.

As you probably already know , I own both PRX and SRX.

[Bob Faulkner]

Bob -  you are welcome to come and hear my SRX818'2 and SRX828's. Maybe you could come to a local show?
If you were looking for a LOT more SPL then I wouldn't necessarily suggest these but your original post was more to do with definition than volume.
The SRX800 series subs will go a bit louder for sure than the PRX series but will GREATLY improve that thump you are looking for. You do get more defined and lower lows with the SRX and it might be just what you are looking for.

As you probably already know , I own both PRX and SRX.

Thanks Debbie. 

PM sent.

[Patrick Cognitore]

Bob, I guess you feel that the deficiency of the PRX718xlf was in it's tonality, rather than output? My first thought when someone says there is not enough 'thump' in the kick range I immediately consider the need for more output. That may not be the case here, but I personally have not had an issue getting 'thump' out of the 718, other than occasionally wanting more of them. To my ears on the gig it sounds like one of the more neutral sounding active subs at that price point (compared to, say - QSC KW181 and Ksub). The published graph looks pretty flat too, but that may be smooth marketing and/or low output response.

Maybe you want to look at a sub with a bit more peaky response (horn or bandpass?), or a more capable one that will take the EQ adjustments you need to get it to sound how'd you'd like?

Yes, the Yamaha and RCF cabinets I use did overrun the PRX sub, however, I kept everything under control so as not to allow those situations to occur.  The xover settings/levels are all managed with a drive-rack.  I rarely ever use the built-in xovers on subs.

[Dennis Wiggins]

...The xover settings/levels are all managed with a drive-rack.  I rarely ever use the built-in xovers on subs.

I am certainly not at your level, but why try to improve (or externally alter) the sound of the factory DSP? My experience is when I attempt to change the crossover point or "EQ" a powered cabinet, the sound gets worse. I often mix and match passive tops with active subs, and vice versa, but no longer attempt to better the crossover or EQ of the powered cabinet.

I work around that which I cannot change.

-Dennis

[Tim McCulloch]

Bob, I guess you feel that the deficiency of the PRX718xlf was in it's tonality, rather than output? My first thought when someone says there is not enough 'thump' in the kick range I immediately consider the need for more output. That may not be the case here, but I personally have not had an issue getting 'thump' out of the 718, other than occasionally wanting more of them. To my ears on the gig it sounds like one of the more neutral sounding active subs at that price point (compared to, say - QSC KW181 and Ksub). The published graph looks pretty flat too, but that may be smooth marketing and/or low output response.

Maybe you want to look at a sub with a bit more peaky response (horn or bandpass?), or a more capable one that will take the EQ adjustments you need to get it to sound how'd you'd like?

Could be on the input side - mic/drum/EQ etc, how does it sound with a variety of recorded material?

{possible experiment}

This might be as simple as rolling up a steep HPF on the DSP subwoofer output, start around 35Hz and go up to 50, 55Hz in steps.  If a Majik Number is found, so note the number.  Restore the DSP HPF to it's prior state and then re-create, as closely as possible, that steep HPF filter on the kick drum input EQ.  See if that gives a similar result.  If so, I'd rather keep that EQ on the input side.  If it doesn't help (or doesn't help enough) then consider either a hybrid approach of some HPF on the DSP and some on the input, or if the HPF helps other instruments sound "right" (like the bass) then reapply the Majik Number in the DSP.

{/possible experiment}

[Bob Faulkner]

Could be on the input side - mic/drum/EQ etc, how does it sound with a variety of recorded material?

{possible experiment}

This might be as simple as rolling up a steep HPF on the DSP subwoofer output, start around 35Hz and go up to 50, 55Hz in steps.  If a Majik Number is found, so note the number.  Restore the DSP HPF to it's prior state and then re-create, as closely as possible, that steep HPF filter on the kick drum input EQ.  See if that gives a similar result.  If so, I'd rather keep that EQ on the input side.  If it doesn't help (or doesn't help enough) then consider either a hybrid approach of some HPF on the DSP and some on the input, or if the HPF helps other instruments sound "right" (like the bass) then reapply the Majik Number in the DSP.

{/possible experiment}

On the input side... The few times I used that sub, I took a little time with it at each event to get it to produce a thump (part of line/sound check).  I tried different mics, mic placement, EQ settings, running a xover value close its upper-end... it just didn't do it.  The EQ settings probably brought out the most of it, but it always sounded like it had just a little too much channel EQ.  The sub had great bass... well defined... solid, but when it came to needing to feel the kick in your chest, it just didn't do it.  It always felt/sounded like the thump was getting lost.  The sub was never run at its maximum; I always ensured head-room was available to manage the "thump".

Recorded material was almost the same; though, not too much headroom in the material... but, the results were nearly identical.

I really liked the size of the PRX (compared to my SRX728s); it was easy to move in/out and around.  But after the disappointing moments with it,  actually ended up using one of my 728s for smaller events.  The PRX has a 1500 watt amp... I powered the single 728S with a bridged PLX1602 (1600 watts).  It was an obvious difference between the 728 and PRX.  I know it wasn't a fair comparison, but the difference (in thump and other things) with the 728 was so much greater, that I ended up lugging a 728 around for smaller events.  Sometimes it was exhausting to keep moving it, but was well worth it (and the customers/guests noticed it as well).

Was hoping there was a powered single 18" that could yield something close to the 728.

[Bob Faulkner]

I am certainly not at your level, but why try to improve (or externally alter) the sound of the factory DSP? My experience is when I attempt to change the crossover point or "EQ" a powered cabinet, the sound gets worse. I often mix and match passive tops with active subs, and vice versa, but no longer attempt to better the crossover or EQ of the powered cabinet.

I work around that which I cannot change.

-Dennis

I'm not actually trying to improve the sound of the speaker, but rather manager (better) what the speaker can do.  The external drive rack units offer choices of filters and how sharp of roll-off is desired (for low and high pass). The ability to control these values (and frequency range of the speaker) can be beneficial for certain types of music.

[Bob Faulkner]

Bob, I guess you feel that the deficiency of the PRX718xlf was in it's tonality, rather than output? My first thought when someone says there is not enough 'thump' in the kick range I immediately consider the need for more output. That may not be the case here, but I personally have not had an issue getting 'thump' out of the 718, other than occasionally wanting more of them. To my ears on the gig it sounds like one of the more neutral sounding active subs at that price point (compared to, say - QSC KW181 and Ksub). The published graph looks pretty flat too, but that may be smooth marketing and/or low output response.

Maybe you want to look at a sub with a bit more peaky response (horn or bandpass?), or a more capable one that will take the EQ adjustments you need to get it to sound how'd you'd like?

Correct.  It always seemed loud enough.

[ProSoundWeb Community]