ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Go Down

Author Topic: Generator suggestions  (Read 7962 times)

Dave Guilford

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 281
Re: Generator suggestions
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2019, 08:43:20 am »

Ok rad.  How do I run my macrotech I-series at 240v?   Do I get any benefit out of that?  My rack as follows:

1x ma9000i
1x ma12000i
1x Furman p1800ar
1x behringer Inuke 46000
1x Midas DL32 / m32

I think all/most could run at 240, but this rig gets used most of the time off power at venue.  Generator happens maybe 12x/year.  I want to keep this EASY and not move things in and out of 240/120.

So I THINK I want to keep 120 across the board.

Bonus points for anyone who can link me to a distro type unit thatíll do what I need , for under $400-500.
Logged

Rob Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3513
  • Boston Metro North/West
    • Lynx Audio Services
Re: Generator suggestions
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2019, 09:33:16 am »

And, a racpak district will replace the Furman.
Logged
rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Mark Cadwallader

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1338
  • Helena, Montana USA
Re: Generator suggestions
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2019, 10:30:40 am »

In my area, I can easily (and cheaply) rent a 50A 120/240v "spider box" at a rental business.  If you have that available as an option in your area, your could make a special cable that has a L14-30 male plug and a California 50A female connector on the other end. The L14-30 would plug in to your generator, and the other end into the rented spider box.  That is a legal usage (30A plug in, 59A connector out). By analogy, you can pour a full 3 gallon bucket into a 5 gallon bucket, but not the other way around.

The adapter cord (with a rented spider box) is your cheapest option (at least in the short to medium term).
Logged
"Good tools are expensive, but cheap tools are damned expensive."

Tim Hite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 893
    • Bad Quail
Re: Generator suggestions
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2019, 05:18:13 pm »

Chris Hindle's response give the gist of what wet stacking is. Essentially, you will foul a diesel engine by running it below minimum operating temp. It's detrimental to performance and longevity. Preventing wet stacking in a prime power situation requires some planning and maybe a load bank to help get the motor up to temperature. I'm far from being an expert on the subject.

As an example, when I was working overseas, our operation was on diesel prime power. Maintenance had issues with users turning off all the lights and HVAC to "save on electricity" but turning everything off would drop the load enough to wet stack the 1.5MW gensets in use. The solution was to leave everything running 24/7, including office lights and HVAC. Sounds insane but kept everything running smoothly once the solution was implemented.



Hey Tim H, what is ďwet stackingĒ?
I am not familiar with that term.
Logged
Bad Quail
Sound + Light
Joshua Tree, California
Authorized Dealers for all this stuff

Steve Crump

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
Re: Generator suggestions
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2019, 07:57:08 pm »

Ok rad.  How do I run my macrotech I-series at 240v?   Do I get any benefit out of that?  My rack as follows:

1x ma9000i
1x ma12000i
1x Furman p1800ar
1x behringer Inuke 46000
1x Midas DL32 / m32

I think all/most could run at 240, but this rig gets used most of the time off power at venue.  Generator happens maybe 12x/year.  I want to keep this EASY and not move things in and out of 240/120.

So I THINK I want to keep 120 across the board.

Bonus points for anyone who can link me to a distro type unit thatíll do what I need , for under $400-500.

https://www.amazon.com/Southwire-019703R02-Straight-Portable-Distributor/dp/B000289AQK/ref=asc_df_B000289AQK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167142956132&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9721558687230259197&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011091&hvtargid=pla-310690703240&psc=1


These arenít rack mount, but definitely fit the budget. Search for temp power distribution boxes. May not be ideal....thatís for you to decide. Northern Tool also carries some products for this use.

I use the LEX rack mount with a 50A plug inlet and 6 20AMP branch circuits, put half the load on A side and the other half on B side of the buss.





« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 08:05:16 pm by Steve Crump »
Logged

Steve Crump

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
Re: Generator suggestions
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2019, 08:14:35 pm »

Guys - next step- suggest to me a basic sister solution. I need a California style 50a/240v inlet broken down to 4x 15a 120v circuits.

Racked or standalone box.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434713_200434713
Logged

Steve-White

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Fort Worth
Re: Generator suggestions
« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2020, 12:59:05 pm »

Debbie, I find this surprising. A properly functioning big diesel should provide about the cleanest power you can get since there aren't any other non-linear loads to contaminate the power as there are with the line. I bet the voltage regulator was out of adjustment or kaput, the frequency was way off, or there was some ground/neutral/God-knows-what wiring issue causing the problem. Did they rent you the same funky generator both times? I once rented a big diesel from Cresco (to run a welder, not sound equipment) and it was pretty out of whack voltage-and frequency-wise. --Frank

Plenty of comments on this already.  But hey, I'm an engineer so I gotta add my 2 cents.  This is from experience back feeding my house with backup generators and the large APC UPS's on my entertainment system and computer gear.  Not sure what UPS you use in your setup, but these have sensitivity controls in the power quality monitoring circuitry at the input.  I set them to either lowest or middle setting when running the generators.

Here's some fact on generators that came as realization over the years and moving through numerous upgrades and into, out of and back into inverters.  First inverter was around 2KW, one of those hand carry little rounded turds.  Junk - they work fine and are quiet but the fuel system in them is dog crap.  Fuel tank in located below carb, need a fuel pump.  If not run at least monthly they get wadded up and need lots of care.  Never again, tried two "popular" brands.  Now my inverter is an open frame type with tank on top.  Turn fuel off and run carb dry after use, use fuel stabilizer in it and it works great.

On to UPS's and conventional rotational generators.  Sensitivity to harmonic distortion and power quality and tolerance to run on it vary from UPS to UPS and is something to be aware of.

For generators, the conventional type and each and every one.  They vary on power quality, clean sine wave and harmonic distortion.  The better (get what you pay for) genny's are a lot cleaner than the cheapies.  Copper wound core is a must.  For any given generator, diesel, gasoline, natural gas, propane it doesn't matter - harmonic distortion in the output is load dependent.  Distortion creeps up to around 70% on the load line, then starts increasing rapidly to whatever value it will be at rated load.  Some conventional rotational generators will not produce power clean enough for a UPS to operate correctly and not cycle or completely trip to backup.

Which means BIGGER IS BETTER as a general rule of thumb for conventional generators.

This isn't to sway you one way or another or about your gear.  I run both, a 2KW Honda inverter for smaller jobs like garden weddings and have an 18KW continuous standard gas rig for the larger stuff as well as a 7KW inverter.

UPS's are picky for power quality, which isn't necessarily a bad thing - just something to be aware of.
Logged

Steven Cohen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
Re: Generator suggestions
« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2020, 08:07:06 am »

Plenty of comments on this already.  But hey, I'm an engineer so I gotta add my 2 cents.  This is from experience back feeding my house with backup generators and the large APC UPS's on my entertainment system and computer gear.  Not sure what UPS you use in your setup, but these have sensitivity controls in the power quality monitoring circuitry at the input.  I set them to either lowest or middle setting when running the generators.

Here's some fact on generators that came as realization over the years and moving through numerous upgrades and into, out of and back into inverters.  First inverter was around 2KW, one of those hand carry little rounded turds.  Junk - they work fine and are quiet but the fuel system in them is dog crap.  Fuel tank in located below carb, need a fuel pump.  If not run at least monthly they get wadded up and need lots of care.  Never again, tried two "popular" brands.  Now my inverter is an open frame type with tank on top.  Turn fuel off and run carb dry after use, use fuel stabilizer in it and it works great.

To add a few more tips for small inverters. If accessible, use E0, ethanol free fuel. Go to pure-gas.org to find stations that sell it near you. When you exercise the generator, run it under a load. For extra fuel cans, only consider metal air tight cans, you fuel will last longer than in a generic plastic tank. The Eagle brand cans are good and relatively inexpensive. Honda now has a fuel injected model on their largest inverter. Hoping this becomes a trend.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Generator suggestions
¬ę Reply #67 on: December 26, 2020, 08:07:06 am ¬Ľ


Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.047 seconds with 22 queries.