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Author Topic: More rig for the gig than we need? Upgrading to smaller size and better quality  (Read 1996 times)

Mark Scrivener

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I work at a club every Sunday night that has 2 K12's flown. The boxes have a weird resonating low mid off the back, requiring a lot of filtering to prevent the vocal mic's from feeding back (250 Hz). Additionally, when the place fills up, they run out of steam and start to sound harsh and crappy, as compared to my SRX or DSR's. They are not worth the $100 savings IMO. I do think they make good floor wedges. YMMV.

A friend has a KW122/KW181 system that I've run a few times. To me they sound off, but I can't quite put my finger on why. They have a noticeably narrow horn pattern that doesn't cover well in wide places.

Recently played a gig where the club had 2 K8's mounted on brackets and we were required to use them. Had the same feedback problem around 250 Hz. And yes, they easily get harsh and run out of steam....but these were 8's. Despite the issues we did manage to get a sound everyone was pleased with....but it could have been so much better.
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Mark Norgren

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It's my hobbyist experience that all rooms need to be eq'd a bit.  Some rooms have hard surfaces that inherently cause issues.  In regards to the horns, we have played a ballroom that is particularly wide.  Not sure any enclosure would provide the necessary coverage.  I'll typically throw a set of K12's to cover the sides and be done with it.

My point about changing from the Presonus to Midas was huge for us.  It is amazing what good preamps do for your sound package.  Clarity, sensitivity, balance, and some other factors we apparent to me right away from the change.  To the OP, don't forget about a quality board.

I'm sure the the Yamaha and JBL are fine speakers and people are happy with them.  My guess is that a good sound engineer could make most of the gear sing given proper time.  I come to this board trying to learn from the pros (I am not), but I do have a pretty good set of ears.  I just got a sense of QSC bashing that I didn't understand.  Again, MHO.  Peace out!
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Tim McCulloch

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It's my hobbyist experience that all rooms need to be eq'd a bit.  Some rooms have hard surfaces that inherently cause issues.  In regards to the horns, we have played a ballroom that is particularly wide.  Not sure any enclosure would provide the necessary coverage.  I'll typically throw a set of K12's to cover the sides and be done with it.

My point about changing from the Presonus to Midas was huge for us.  It is amazing what good preamps do for your sound package.  Clarity, sensitivity, balance, and some other factors we apparent to me right away from the change.  To the OP, don't forget about a quality board.

I'm sure the the Yamaha and JBL are fine speakers and people are happy with them.  My guess is that a good sound engineer could make most of the gear sing given proper time.  I come to this board trying to learn from the pros (I am not), but I do have a pretty good set of ears.  I just got a sense of QSC bashing that I didn't understand.  Again, MHO.  Peace out!

How did you physically and electrically separate the preamps from the rest of the circuitry and digital signal processing inside the console?  You know, stuff that affects what we hear, like the summing algorithms, or the AD/DA converters?

The answer is that you and so many others attribute all "perceived improvements" of a console's output as being the result of the manufacturer's choice of $0.79 preamp chip.
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Dennis Wiggins

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...boxes have a weird resonating low mid off the back, requiring a lot of filtering to prevent the vocal mic's from feeding back (250 Hz)...

Here is an excerpt from a review I wrote about DXR10.

"My only gripe is that, directly behind the cabinet for about 2-3 feet, it has an annoying mid-range "honk". This is probably due to the fact that is it is so light, which I am willing to trade off. If you work just behind, but very close to the cabinet (as I do to save my hearing), this can be an issue. At more than 3 feet behind , this is a non-issue."

The far more capable DXR12 does not have this issue, and the side handles make easier to put up in the air than the 10. They both get used regularly, depending on the need. I expect that I'll be living with them for a long time.

-Dennis

« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 11:01:58 am by Dennis Wiggins »
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Jeff Lelko

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...but I've read quite a few threads as of late (in the last month or so) that have had negative comments on the QSC's.

I just got a sense of QSC bashing that I didn't understand.

From the threads I've read or posted in I never got this impression.  There's nothing wrong with the various offerings from QSC so long as they're used within the scope of their intended application, as is the case with most equipment.  I've mentioned in many threads that I'm still a happy owner/user of the HPR series, as has Scott who owns a substantial amount of KW rig. 

What I've also said is this - QSC tends to give their products a very long production life compared to other companies, especially at the lounge level of gear.  The original K Series and KWs have been on the market for about a decade now if my memory serves correctly.  They're a very known commodity, and I view that as a good thing when needing to grow or rent a system.  Others such as JBL and Yamaha seem to introduce updates and new models on a somewhat yearly or bi-yearly basis, which gives added attention to the brand along with incorporation of the latest industry trends.  QSC shook up the powered speaker market in the mid-2000s with their introduction of the HPR Series which (in my opinion) set the new standard for top-level prosumer or entry-level professional powered boxes.  While the newer KW Series was built around a lighter amp, many will say that it wasn't a sonic improvement especially when pushed - and I tend to agree.  I don't want to say that QSC rested on their laurels after the massive success of the HPR Series, but they certainly haven't released another product that shakes up the industry in the past decade...which opened the door for others like Yamaha to come in with the DSR Series.  This isn't brand bashing - it's just noting industry trends and how quickly various manufacturers are willing to adapt to the current market's offerings.     
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Robert Lunceford

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Others such as JBL and Yamaha seem to introduce updates and new models on a somewhat yearly or bi-yearly basis, which gives added attention to the brand along with incorporation of the latest industry trends.

And sometimes manufacturers get it right the first time and the product enjoys longevity. Cases in point , the Sennheiser MD441 that was first introduced in 1966 and is still in production. It is considered to be the most accurate dynamic microphone  ever made.  The Bose 802 only had a couple on minor changes during it's +35 years of production. It has found it's way to the Sydney Summer Olympics and FOH speaker system for Michael Jackson and Bruce Springsteen. It appears that Danley got it right the first time on their entire line.
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Scott Holtzman

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From the threads I've read or posted in I never got this impression.  There's nothing wrong with the various offerings from QSC so long as they're used within the scope of their intended application, as is the case with most equipment.  I've mentioned in many threads that I'm still a happy owner/user of the HPR series, as has Scott who owns a substantial amount of KW rig. 

What I've also said is this - QSC tends to give their products a very long production life compared to other companies, especially at the lounge level of gear.  The original K Series and KWs have been on the market for about a decade now if my memory serves correctly.  They're a very known commodity, and I view that as a good thing when needing to grow or rent a system.  Others such as JBL and Yamaha seem to introduce updates and new models on a somewhat yearly or bi-yearly basis, which gives added attention to the brand along with incorporation of the latest industry trends.  QSC shook up the powered speaker market in the mid-2000s with their introduction of the HPR Series which (in my opinion) set the new standard for top-level prosumer or entry-level professional powered boxes.  While the newer KW Series was built around a lighter amp, many will say that it wasn't a sonic improvement especially when pushed - and I tend to agree.  I don't want to say that QSC rested on their laurels after the massive success of the HPR Series, but they certainly haven't released another product that shakes up the industry in the past decade...which opened the door for others like Yamaha to come in with the DSR Series.  This isn't brand bashing - it's just noting industry trends and how quickly various manufacturers are willing to adapt to the current market's offerings.     

I have 5 HPR122i's that I just looked have never been services in 5 years (I got them used).  I am always looking for one more 122 and a two 152's then I could make two monitor rigs out of it.

The odd thing to me is QSC seems to go backwards.  I think HPR's sound better and are more rugged than KW's.  The K's have always been weak.  I don't own any, but the DXR10's run circles around them.  The k2's went with the industry trend of putting a mixer and a computer on the back of the speaker so I got turned off right away.  A pro speaker should have a power plug, an input and a link control and level pot.  That's it.  (some means to select DSP presets may be ok but it better be major idiot proof). 

The only downside to HPR is having to move them.  Those suckers are heavy!

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
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jesseweiss

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After all the feedback and Yamaha's announcement of updated dr's coming I'm going to wait on those and see how they compare to the lower priced EV ELX stuff.

With the new dxr I can see running 10s over the 12 inch sub. The sub is  heavier than ours but smaller with higher spl. The new dxr10 is 7 lbs lighter than our 12s with the same output. Having heard current dxr they do sound better than ours, so I assume new ones will be even better.

As i said in my OP hoping for size/weight savings and quality upgrade and I dont mind spending even if a mostly lateral move.
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