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Author Topic: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs  (Read 1563 times)

Andrew Endres

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Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« on: May 25, 2019, 05:35:30 pm »

I have a Crown iTech6000 and a XTi6000 running 4x VRX932LAs and 2x SRX728s.


I'm using the iTech on the Subs and the XTi on the mains currently.

Down the road I want to sell the XTi6000 and buy 2x separate amps to biamp the tops.

Am I correct in understanding that the ideal program power ratings for the drivers are:

BiAmp LF: 1600w @ 8ohm and BiAmp HF: 150w @ 8ohm?


I would love any recommendations for ideal amps for the LF woofer and for the HF compression drivers!
(Amps with DSP are preferable as I'd rather not run out and buy a processor!)


 


I'm mainly confused because the VRX Application guide states that you should ideally run the same system at between 3000w-6400w @ 4ohms per side for tops and between 3200w-6400w for subs in passive.

It seems that, with my current configuration, I am under powering the system. Is that true? When JBL says 3000w-6400w per side does this mean that I should have an amp that can output somewhere around 5000w Program power? Or, does this mean I should have an amp that operates at around 6400w Peak? Or, does it mean that I should have an amp that outputs at around 3000w RMS? Or, am I totally fine? I have had a lot of folks tell me that I am completely fine. But, I guess I'm trying to understand why the VRX Application Guide is so misleading perhaps?

I have had multiple conversations about this with my friends who own A/V companies and other audio geeks and I feel like they are starting to hate me because I'm contacting them all the time.

Please take mercy upon the noob!  ;D
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2019, 05:47:05 pm »

We have nothing against newbies, as long as they follow the sign up instructions.
Please use your actual Name.
You can add your company in the by-line if you want.
No one will reply until then.

 
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Andrew Endres

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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2019, 06:27:53 pm »

We have nothing against newbies, as long as they follow the sign up instructions.
Please use your actual Name.
You can add your company in the by-line if you want.
No one will reply until then.

Sorry Dave! I have now changed my name! Thank you!
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Rob Spence

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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2019, 07:58:28 pm »

I have a Crown iTech6000 and a XTi6000 running 4x VRX932LAs and 2x SRX728s.


I'm using the iTech on the Subs and the XTi on the mains currently.

Down the road I want to sell the XTi6000 and buy 2x separate amps to biamp the tops.

Am I correct in understanding that the ideal program power ratings for the drivers are:

BiAmp LF: 1600w @ 8ohm and BiAmp HF: 150w @ 8ohm?


I would love any recommendations for ideal amps for the LF woofer and for the HF compression drivers!
(Amps with DSP are preferable as I'd rather not run out and buy a processor!)


 


I'm mainly confused because the VRX Application guide states that you should ideally run the same system at between 3000w-6400w @ 4ohms per side for tops and between 3200w-6400w for subs in passive.

It seems that, with my current configuration, I am under powering the system. Is that true? When JBL says 3000w-6400w per side does this mean that I should have an amp that can output somewhere around 5000w Program power? Or, does this mean I should have an amp that operates at around 6400w Peak? Or, does it mean that I should have an amp that outputs at around 3000w RMS? Or, am I totally fine? I have had a lot of folks tell me that I am completely fine. But, I guess I'm trying to understand why the VRX Application Guide is so misleading perhaps?

I have had multiple conversations about this with my friends who own A/V companies and other audio geeks and I feel like they are starting to hate me because I'm contacting them all the time.

Please take mercy upon the noob!  ;D

There has been a long thread in the past week that has discouraged biamping these. Passive seems to work real well (or as well as the cabs can do). Simpler too!

I suggest reading lots. You may learn stuff you were not expecting to.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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Andrew Endres

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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2019, 09:51:08 pm »

There has been a long thread in the past week that has discouraged biamping these. Passive seems to work real well (or as well as the cabs can do). Simpler too!

I suggest reading lots. You may learn stuff you were not expecting to.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Do you happen to have a link to the thread? I thought I had read every post that was out there about biamping VRX932LA and just VRX in general. I have heard a lot of opinions leaning both ways. I am running passive currently. But, I know over time that if you run passive you run the risking of burning out the caps in the internal crossover as well as just not distributing power in the most efficient way possible. (I.e. JBLs ratings on sensitivity of this box have quite a range and id love to get every ounce I can from them..)

Thank you for the insight!

Best,

-Andrew
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Riley Casey

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2019, 10:52:18 pm »

Do you happen to have a link to the thread? I thought I had read every post that was out there about biamping VRX932LA and just VRX in general. I have heard a lot of opinions leaning both ways. I am running passive currently. But, I know over time that if you run passive you run the risking of burning out the caps in the internal crossover as well as just not distributing power in the most efficient way possible. (I.e. JBLs ratings on sensitivity of this box have quite a range and id love to get every ounce I can from them..)

Thank you for the insight!

Best,

-Andrew

The difference between the last ounce and silence is <3dB.  If you're worried about the caps in the crossover I submit you have the wrong speaker system for the application.

Biamping VRX will generally not yield an audible increase in  SPL and does nothing to improve negative aspects of the design.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 10:55:00 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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Riley Casey

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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2019, 09:45:46 am »

Hate to rain on this part of the parade too but the internal passive crossovers remain largely inline when the boxes are bi-amped.  It might be an interesting project to connect directly to the drivers bypassing the passive network entirely and spend a few dozen hours with Smaart in a large space making measurements to find if there is some hidden capacity in the VRX932s that asymmetrical crossover frequencies and slopes that the baked in crossovers impeded but none of that will make a big dent in the inherent limitations of the geometry of the driver relationships.

... I know over time that if you run passive you run the risking of burning out the caps in the internal crossover as well as just not distributing power in the most efficient way possible. (I.e. JBLs ratings on sensitivity of this box have quite a range and id love to get every ounce I can from them..)

Thank you for the insight!

Best,

-Andrew

Luke Geis

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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2019, 12:28:02 pm »

Run them in passive mode and never look back. The most usable and beneficial thing you can do is to wire the speakers independently ( one speaker per amp channel ) so you can volume shade and potentially EQ each box differently. If you have a 4-5 box array of these, the best results are usually acquired by turning certain boxes down or nearly off and eq'ing the different sections to even out the harshness they exhibit.
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John P. Farrell

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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 09:12:52 am »

Run them in passive mode and never look back. The most usable and beneficial thing you can do is to wire the speakers independently ( one speaker per amp channel ) so you can volume shade and potentially EQ each box differently. If you have a 4-5 box array of these, the best results are usually acquired by turning certain boxes down or nearly off and eq'ing the different sections to even out the harshness they exhibit.

This right here.  Worrying about the caps in the box is a complete waste of brain cells IMO.  The VRX can only do so much, and the time and expense of biamping is a waste of resources.  Being able to shade and EQ is a different story, however even just being mindful of the HF shading will yield a much better listening experience on your rig. 

Save your $ for more important upgrades than a biamped VRX rig. 

JF
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Re: Amp Recommendations for Biamping 4x VRX932LAs
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 09:12:52 am »


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