Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Steve Garris]

Additional good news, we will have someone running sound from FOH. I feel I can now be less mentally invested in the setup and let him do his thing on the day.

This is the most important thing, no matter what equipment you use. Glad to hear you got someone!

[Robert Lunceford]

Got a community show coming up next month. Big space outside. No budget for hiring in production. We will be limited to using the equipment we have available, which is a Bose F1 system (2 subs and 2 tops) and a JBL PRX 712 and 718xlf system (2 of each).

I'd like to pile all that gear up with the intention of getting the most summing possible with the least interference. However, neither the differently branded subs (JBL: front-loaded vs. Bose: band-pass) nor the tops (JBL: 12" plus CD horn vs. Bose: 12" plus mini line array) are likely to play well together.

The bandleader suggested we just put one of each cab on each side and daisy chain them from the Main L&R. I'm not convinced that will give us the best results.

My thought is to place like subs together - JBLs on one side and Bose on the other. And then use the two different top types to cover different areas of the audience. The Bose tops would point out a bit use as an outfill of sorts. Then the JBL tops placed as front-fill. I'd try to separate and/or splay the tops to keep the interaction to a minimum. I'd use separate bus sends to control each system (ex: Bose out of Main L&R, JBL from Aux bus) so I'd have discrete control over level, EQ, etc. Mixer does not have output delay so using delay stacks is not a option.

We will not have time to experiment with different layouts before the show.

Any thoughts on the above configuration? Or other suggestions given the equipment limitations?

----------------

I initially left out some info about the band:

We are a function band, so music is everything from classic rock to Motown to modern pop to country. Instrumentation is guitar, bass, drums, 3 vocals. And backing tracks with keys, horns, etc.

There is no stage volume, band is all on in-ears, no amps and electronic drums.

You have both speaker systems at your disposal to set up and do a real world test. Why not set them up, listen, and come to your own conclusion.

[Patrick Tracy]

and another 3dB if you put them together from coupling.

I'd say it's more a matter of how they sum rather than if they sum. I'm not convinced power alley is all that bad a thing.

[Patrick Cognitore]

You have both speaker systems at your disposal to set up and do a real world test. Why not set them up, listen, and come to your own conclusion.

The systems are not together in one place, they're in entirely different states, actually. The man-hours that would've been required to get them together and then do testing would total more than than the actual gig will entail. Hence my solicitation of opinions on this forum.

[Tim McCulloch]

I'd say it's more a matter of how they sum rather than if they sum. I'm not convinced power alley is all that bad a thing.

Everything in audio involves compromise.  Of the various subwoofer compromises, power alley is low on my list of things to "fix".

Some folks obsess of it and I guess everyone needs a hobby but the vast majority of punter comments on subs do not involve power alley.  IOW "fixing" it might be a great academic and physical exercise but only a few ticket buyers will notice in a show with live music played by live musicians.

[Jay Barracato]

Everything in audio involves compromise.  Of the various subwoofer compromises, power alley is low on my list of things to "fix".

Some folks obsess of it and I guess everyone needs a hobby but the vast majority of punter comments on subs do not involve power alley.  IOW "fixing" it might be a great academic and physical exercise but only a few ticket buyers will notice in a show with live music played by live musicians.

Especially indoors where more than likely it is just being moved around, and there is always the rear lobes bleeding back on stage.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[Robert Lunceford]

The systems are not together in one place, they're in entirely different states, actually. The man-hours that would've been required to get them together and then do testing would total more than than the actual gig will entail. Hence my solicitation of opinions on this forum.

My misunderstanding, I thought that all the speakers were owned by various members of the band.
Now that you have read through five pages of suggestions, how would you have set up the speakers had the decision been left up to you?

[Kirby Yarbrough]

porcine lipstick

Outstanding.

[Ivan Beaver]

Everything in audio involves compromise.  Of the various subwoofer compromises, power alley is low on my list of things to "fix".

Some folks obsess of it and I guess everyone needs a hobby but the vast majority of punter comments on subs do not involve power alley.  IOW "fixing" it might be a great academic and physical exercise but only a few ticket buyers will notice in a show with live music played by live musicians.

Agreed, this goes right along with one of my favorite sayings  "Just because we can does not mean we should".

The whole power alley thing get really blown out of proportion when you go inside, and then the room modes become the dominating factor, not power alley.

Outside it can be more of an issue, but often those who don't like split subs because of the lobes, completely forget about the fact that with center subs it is going to be much louder down front in the middle than anywhere else.

Does that matter?  It depends on the show.  In some cases, a more even (in terms of average SPL over the whole seating area) result is achieved with split subs.

Agreed it is all about compromise.  And understanding what the compromise is.

There is no "one method fits all".  It all depends on the particular show, the audience area etc.  Then you choose what is best for that show.  Tomorrow may be a completely different setup

[Patrick Cognitore]

My misunderstanding, I thought that all the speakers were owned by various members of the band.
Now that you have read through five pages of suggestions, how would you have set up the speakers had the decision been left up to you?

They are all owned by the band members, we're just spread out a bit across two states.

The gig has yet to come (it's in two weeks), and the situation has changed a bit (for the better) since my original post. I added an update in the OP to clarify the situation.

OP: https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171127.msg1576391.html#msg1576391

To answer your question - left to my own devices I probably would've set both the JBL and Bose up and ran them as a dual PA. I would've tried out both systems together with each instrument and made an assessment at that time whether extra output was achieved, and even if so was it worth any potential degradation in sound quality.

TBH, I think the best we can hope for at this gig is that they audience can here the music where they are seated, at a decent quality level. We have no hope of achieving high SPL at the 75-200+' distances we're dealing with short of bring in a serious concert system.

-------------------

Couple of other things to fill in the blanks. (Please note I had no say in these decisions.)

The band had inquired of the promoter to hire in audio production. That was a no go.

The looked into hiring a local company out of their own pocket. It was decided that just didn't make sense from a cost perspective and to just cover the gig with the gear they could source from within the band. Hopefully with the JBL PRX and Eon systems will get the job done.

[ProSoundWeb Community]