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[Mark Dawson]

Use the JBL.       Leave the Bose far away from the venue.         Two PRX tops over the subs will work ok for your application.   

Adding the Bose will make the overall sound crappier, and won’t make it ‘louder’


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[Scott Holtzman]

Use the JBL.       Leave the Bose far away from the venue.         Two PRX tops over the subs will work ok for your application.   

Adding the Bose will make the overall sound crappier, and won’t make it ‘louder’


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I lean towards this but the folks that gave you the dual PA idea or very experienced.

With the silent stage you have a fighting chance.

I was hoping my little poke you could get some funds from the organizers to at least rent you some decent stacks.

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[Chris Grimshaw]

You can do a dual PA.  Each side to have both a JBL and a Bose.  Send the vocals to one system and the band to the other, I'd start with vocals in Bose and band in JBL.  Bose "subs" likely won't get any use.

+1.
With that set of equipment, it's about the only thing that'll be worthwhile IMO.

I'd centre-cluster the subs because it's a little more output. When subs are separate, cancellations occur and that's a net loss of LF energy. Putting them close together avoids those cancellations.


If attendance is high, or the audience is far away, this might well be a matter of making sure the PA survives the gig.

Chris

[Kevin McDonough]

hey

yep agree put both JBL subs together centre stage, they'll sum together and cover the ground as smoothly as possible, should sound fine.

Only thing I'd say is I'd be tempted to put the jbl tops up nice and high on stands and use them to cover the bulk of the audience. If they're up above everyone's heads the sound will carry pretty far. Won't be rock concert volume, but will carry through the audience.

Use the Bose then right at the front of the stage to cover the first few rows, until the JBL takes over.

Unless you've got the ability to delay things and line the phase of everything up it wont be perfect, but would be alright for what it is.

k

[Roland Clarke]

+1.
With that set of equipment, it's about the only thing that'll be worthwhile IMO.

I'd centre-cluster the subs because it's a little more output. When subs are separate, cancellations occur and that's a net loss of LF energy. Putting them close together avoids those cancellations.


If attendance is high, or the audience is far away, this might well be a matter of making sure the PA survives the gig.

Chris

Then the cancellations move to the crossover region, it’s a yin yang scenario.  By the look of the stage centre subs will be untidy.  I don’t think it’s going to make much difference.  This is a job for at least a couple of double 18’s (or equivalent) each side and a couple of high powered tops.

[Jonathan Hole]

I echo the dual PA concept as your best chance and given the height of the "stage" I would use F1 tops for vocals and with the bottom of their "array" curved down or pushed in so you cover the crowd below.  If F1 is handling vocals you'll be able sing in front of speakers if needed, not worry about feedback due to limited freq response of those tops.  Vocals don't need subs, so I'd sum the Bose and JBL subs together for the band feed so you get as much low end as possible - just experiment not ideal but hey.  For that setting I think you have to stack left/right as another poster diagrammed, no space for center cluster and delay stacks just not practical looking at that venue.

Long term of course I'd consider selling it all and start building a more modular higher fidelity system that could scale for smaller outdoor gigs as needed. 

Post some pics and let us know how it goes!

[Mike Santarelli]

Use the JBL.       Leave the Bose far away from the venue.         Two PRX tops over the subs will work ok for your application.   

Adding the Bose will make the overall sound crappier, and won’t make it ‘louder’


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I agree with Mark.

I've seen this situation a few times with little or no budget for sound and almost every time a single sub and top per side worked out just fine.  Yes, a big and full sounding system is awesome but without the budget don't sweat it.  Usually they don't want it screaming loud.  The people that want to hear will move closer.  I'd just make it sound good with one system and call it a day. You are not going to get much more from using two systems sharing the same source.  Dual PA will help but its not going have the impact of a larger system.  To get higher levels to the audience you may want to place the PA down on the ground level and crank the tops as high as you can safely get them. I'd also center cluster the subs.

If this a community event you will most likely have older attendees saying it's too loud no matter how soft or loud the pa is.

[Mal Brown]

If it were me I would leave the Bose home...   

You guys booked a gig, knowing the venue, knowing you would have to provide sound and can’t actually do a decent job of it while there is no doubt at least one local sound guy struggling to get by...  can’t say I have sympathy for you.  Next time, quote enough to do the job right or pass...

[Patrick Cognitore]

You guys booked a gig, knowing the venue, knowing you would have to provide sound and can’t actually do a decent job of it while there is no doubt at least one local sound guy struggling to get by...  can’t say I have sympathy for you.  Next time, quote enough to do the job right or pass...

Pretty harsh, Mal, and also pretty off base, IMO.

I am a sideman in this band, doing my best to help make it sound as good as it can in any given circumstance. I have no say over bookings or budgets. I don't control how much the client decides to pay the band for a given engagement or whether they provide production when it's obviously desperately needed.

This particular gig is one the band does yearly in their hometown to be able to play publicly for local friends and fans. We mostly do regional private corporate/wedding work. I'm sure the band is taking a big pay hit just to do the gig. Since us sidemen get our standard rate for the gig, I'm guessing that the show may even be a loss for the business. In any case the bandleaders see a net benefit to doing the gig, despite the financial and logistical limitations.

This gig is not part of some nefarious plan to take work from a local sound company. Hell, in he past I've been that struggling local sound guy..I can assure you that I would not fault a band for doing this gig with their own gear.

I don't know all the specifics, but to bring on sound I'd guess it would double or triple the budget. But the budget for this gig is fixed by the client - a non-profit community event organization funded in part by the City.

How exactly is what we're doing taking work from a struggling local sound guy?

Are you saying the band should pass on the gig as some kind of principled stand against local non-profits not providing a big enough audio budget for their community summer concert series?

[Patrick Cognitore]

The Bose PA is owned by the band. That's the main PA. I"m just a sideman. The JBL gear is mine that we've discussed using as supplemental PA for this particular gig.

I'm pretty positive there is nothing I could say that would make the band not want to use their Bose system.

Last year they did this gig (I was not with the band) they used the Bose PA along with a JBL EON600 system (tops over subs) and ran it all together off the L/R mains.

The plan is similar this year as well unless I can come up with a convincing reason not to do it that way.

If anyone has recommended talking points for a dual PA approach, or even not using the Bose PA, I'm all ears.

Use the JBL.       Leave the Bose far away from the venue.         Two PRX tops over the subs will work ok for your application.   

Adding the Bose will make the overall sound crappier, and won’t make it ‘louder’

[ProSoundWeb Community]