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Author Topic: More 5GHz wireless questions  (Read 4380 times)

dave briar

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More 5GHz wireless questions
« on: May 18, 2019, 07:53:55 PM »

It appears I’ll be involved with some larger festivals this summer and so thought it wise to confirm that my never-used backup router (for mixing from tablet) was still configured to be able to swap it into place should my primary fail — which it never has but...   In doing so I noticed that the 5GHz signal of the newer backup router (Asus RTAC52U) was considerably stronger than that of my older primary (TP-Link WDR3600) as measured via a free WiFi Analyzer on my Android tablet.  This may well be entirely due to the Asus having 5dBi 5GHz antennas as opposed to the 3dBi antenna gain on the TP-Link.  So at very least I decided to swap the roles and use the Asus as my new primary which, given my OCD nature, led me to start asking other questions that ran me right off the end of my limited understanding of wireless systems. 

For example, given tablet mixing does not seem to inherently require high-capacity throughput but simply a robust/stable connection, what advantage, if any, does the AC protocol of the Asus have over the older N protocol of the TP-Link?  Any?

Likewise, the default 5GHz channel width on the Asus is 20/40/80.  From my reading it seems the wider 80MHz width can potentially offer greater throughput but also greater chance of interference. So given we don’t really need much throughput (bandwidth) but would benefit from minimal interference would it theoretically be better to specifically set the channel width to 20MHz centered on a clear region of the spectrum or just let the router automagically adjust it as I assume the 20/40/80 connotation suggests it will? 

Finally, no OCD (or is it simply GAS?) examination would be complete without exploring the nuances of the various Ubiquiti Unifi series.  Certainly the more antenna looking form factor of the “Unifi Mesh” model (somewhat misleading as apparently all of the Unifi APs are meshable) is less visually obtrusive than the flying saucer form factor of the others, however, the saucer-shaped Unifi AP AC LR (long range) claims to be better at receiving a response from the presumably less powerful mobile device and therefore more capable of maintaining long-range performance.  True or marketing hype?  To be honest when I do lose connection either due to great distance or building interference I’ve no idea whether it is primarily due to my tablet not being able to “hear” the AP or whether the AP is not “hearing” my tablet’s response.

Yes I understand these are rather academic questions that are certainly of less concern than the importance of deploying the antennas high enough to maintain line-of-sight to the tablet but I also know that many here could likely offer perspective that may be helpful to others like myself.  Thoughts?
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Rob Spence

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2019, 08:40:13 PM »

Well, I can’t address all of your questions, I can talk about mesh.

The Unify APs act as a single cooperating WIFI network.
The mesh units can operate as part of a cooperating network but also have the ability to work without any wired Ethernet connection as long as it can talk to another mesh unit.

I like to put the mesh AP up 13’ on a speaker stand. I took a top hat and added the mesh unit mount and a BNC pass through for my remote like paddle.



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Geert Friedhof

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2019, 11:43:53 PM »

I really wish you luck using 2.4 or 5 Ghz networks with larger crowds.
If/when succesfull please let me know how you did it.

The mesh Ap's can relay up/down several hops and/or ap's wirelessly, while the non-mesh ones can only do 1 hop upstream.
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dave briar

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2019, 02:53:07 PM »

Well, I can’t address all of your questions, I can talk about mesh.

The Unify APs act as a single cooperating WIFI network.
The mesh units can operate as part of a cooperating network but also have the ability to work without any wired Ethernet connection as long as it can talk to another mesh unit.
Yea I do understand, at least in principle, what mesh is/does but was just pointing out that while the Unifi AP with the slim antenna-like form factor specifically has “Mesh” in its name (AP-AC-Mesh) all of the other saucer-shaped Unifi APs are meshable as well and also that the AP-AC-Mesh model, just like the others, can be run as a stand-alone access point. Do you have yours configured to use a switch between it and the mixer or just plug it directly into the mixer?  I assume that’s possible.

I like to put the mesh AP up 13’ on a speaker stand. I took a top hat and added the mesh unit mount and a BNC pass through for my remote like paddle.
“A top hat”?  Wuzzat?  Any chance for a pic?
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dave briar

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2019, 03:01:22 PM »

I really wish you luck using 2.4 or 5 Ghz networks with larger crowds.
If/when succesfull please let me know how you did it.

The mesh Ap's can relay up/down several hops and/or ap's wirelessly, while the non-mesh ones can only do 1 hop upstream
I guess I’ve only done crowds up to about 1,000 but have never had any problems using 5GHz as long as I maintain line-of-sight.  Of course I live in Montana which may we’ll have a quieter RF environment than larger markets.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2019, 03:41:42 PM »

“A top hat”?  Wuzzat?  Any chance for a pic?

Uh... THIS

Mac
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dave briar

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2019, 03:55:25 PM »

Uh... THIS

Mac
Ahhh..  Should be plenty strong enough to hold a 5oz AP ;)!
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Rob Spence

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2019, 11:25:33 PM »

Yea I do understand, at least in principle, what mesh is/does but was just pointing out that while the Unifi AP with the slim antenna-like form factor specifically has “Mesh” in its name (AP-AC-Mesh) all of the other saucer-shaped Unifi APs are meshable as well and also that the AP-AC-Mesh model, just like the others, can be run as a stand-alone access point. Do you have yours configured to use a switch between it and the mixer or just plug it directly into the mixer?  I assume that’s possible.
“A top hat”?  Wuzzat?  Any chance for a pic?

Mac covered the top hat...

My audio networks are pretty much always configured the same. A router/ap/dhcp server/switch box with the mesh ap connected (with its own SSID), the mixer connected (for Dante enabled mixers, there is a switch in the dog house) and, finally, if used, a laptop or 2.
While I understand the router isn’t needed at the gig, when I get back to the shop I plug the WAN side into a local internet connected jack and then the laptops can fetch updates etc without any address changes to the audio gear.



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Cory Chenoweth

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2019, 10:18:54 AM »

I've had good result using Engenius ENH500. 5GHz, 13 dBi directional antenna beam. I've tried several different flavors of 2.4 & 5GHz home devices when I first started using tablets (PC tablets - Motion Computing; before the iPAD craze). As you noted, most of the home variety only put out 3-5dBi and usually OMI-directional.

+1 to getting it up high.

Regards,
Cory
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dave briar

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Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 02:36:42 PM »

I've had good result using Engenius ENH500. 5GHz, 13 dBi directional antenna beam. I've tried several different flavors of 2.4 & 5GHz home devices when I first started using tablets (PC tablets - Motion Computing; before the iPAD craze). As you noted, most of the home variety only put out 3-5dBi and usually OMI-directional.

+1 to getting it up high.

Regards,
Cory
Yea, I’ve seen those as well as other 13dBi antenna options from other manufacturers.  That should certainly do the trick but (not meaning to sound critical here) it seems might also “step on” more of the 5GHz spectrum than is polite or even legal?  I guess I’m reacting to the following footnote on the Ubiquiti site wherever high-gain antennas are described:

   “Different antenna gains are allowed for each
    regulatory domain or country. It is the installer’s
    responsibility to check local regulations.” 

Though I might well end up going that route myself trusting that here in the wilds of Montana nobody is going to call me out on it. Thanks for your input.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 02:40:18 PM by dave briar »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: More 5GHz wireless questions
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 02:36:42 PM »


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