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Author Topic: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills  (Read 1309 times)

genepensiero

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FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« on: May 16, 2019, 02:33:46 pm »

We've got a 1950's A-frame sanctuary. The seating area is about 50ft x 35ft. There's also a balcony, which extends further back (the front of the balcony would be the back of the main seating area on the ground floor).

Currently, we use two JBL Control 30 speakers for L+R front of house.

For the balcony there are JBL Control 28 speakers used as fills.

We have a couple of problems with our front of house speakers.

First, of all, the ball mounts are getting old. About 15 years. The speakers slowly start to slip downward and have to be repositioned.

Second, the front of the stage (where the pastor stands) is well in front of where the speakers are mounted. Naturally, volume/feedback can easily become a problem when he's speaking.

I'm trying to research some options and opinions. What are the downsides of moving to a setup where smaller speakers are used on the side walls instead of just 2 up front?

I found this diagram on google images (it's not ours, but the layout of the room isn't unlike our space)



What if we did what is seen here, but without speaker 1?

It's always seemed strange to me that, to fill the room, the people in front get a louder experience than those in the back.

If you were me, what would you do to address these issues?

Many thanks.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2019, 04:44:45 pm »

What is your program material?
Spoken only?
Choir?
Band?
Analog or digital mixer?

Generally speaking speaker 1 is where the audience will get the localization from, so It might be important.
Mount it up high.
The side speakers will need to be delayed to keep the sound coherent, which is usually fairly easy with a digital mixer.
Not so much with analog; you would need speakers with built in delay or an external unit.
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genepensiero

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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2019, 05:26:55 pm »

What is your program material?
Spoken only?
Choir?
Band?
Analog or digital mixer?

Generally speaking speaker 1 is where the audience will get the localization from, so It might be important.
Mount it up high.
The side speakers will need to be delayed to keep the sound coherent, which is usually fairly easy with a digital mixer.
Not so much with analog; you would need speakers with built in delay or an external unit.

Hey Dave. Thanks for reply.

Band. Sometimes with drums. Pastor.

No choir.

Digital Allen and Heath GLD

We're good on the ability to delay, we've got that set up for our balcony speakers.

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Tim Weaver

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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2019, 07:07:13 pm »

A setup just like what is in that pic is perfectly acceptable. Keep the speaker over the stage though. Dave is right. You want the audio to "appear" to be coming from that spot. It helps get the audience immersed in what's happening.

I would investigate a higher quality speaker for above the stage. It's more likely to put the sound where you want it and to keep the sound away from where you don't want it. That is one of the things Danley excells at doing. It's less about how they sound, or how loud they get, but all about where the sound goes and doesn't go. You could then recycle your JBL's for the delay zones. Maybe throw some epoxy in the sockets once you get them aimed where you want.
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John Halliburton

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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 10:08:33 am »

We've got a 1950's A-frame sanctuary. The seating area is about 50ft x 35ft. There's also a balcony, which extends further back (the front of the balcony would be the back of the main seating area on the ground floor).

Currently, we use two JBL Control 30 speakers for L+R front of house.

For the balcony there are JBL Control 28 speakers used as fills.

We have a couple of problems with our front of house speakers.

First, of all, the ball mounts are getting old. About 15 years. The speakers slowly start to slip downward and have to be repositioned.

Second, the front of the stage (where the pastor stands) is well in front of where the speakers are mounted. Naturally, volume/feedback can easily become a problem when he's speaking.

I'm trying to research some options and opinions. What are the downsides of moving to a setup where smaller speakers are used on the side walls instead of just 2 up front?

I found this diagram on google images (it's not ours, but the layout of the room isn't unlike our space)



What if we did what is seen here, but without speaker 1?

It's always seemed strange to me that, to fill the room, the people in front get a louder experience than those in the back.

If you were me, what would you do to address these issues?

Many thanks.

Twenty years ago we helped with a church space just like this, installed a single TD-1(now the Danley SH-46) from the ceiling above the pulpit-no other delay speakers ever were needed, the coverage is that good.  Add a sub on the floor somewhere for your band needs.


Best regards,

John
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Roland Clarke

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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2019, 10:58:25 am »

If youve got some height and you are only 50ft deep Id run a pair up front with perhaps a couple of balcony fills.  Sure bring the mains forward of the pastor, but dont over complicate the job, you stand more chance of losing more than you gain.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2019, 07:07:43 pm »

Twenty years ago we helped with a church space just like this, installed a single TD-1(now the Danley SH-46) from the ceiling above the pulpit-no other delay speakers ever were needed, the coverage is that good.  Add a sub on the floor somewhere for your band needs.


Best regards,

John

Agreed, single time arrival will help with intelligibility as well.  A single asymmetric speaker like a Martin CDD 15 could work, it's free to model in EASE Focus. 
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2019, 08:37:13 pm »

A setup just like what is in that pic is perfectly acceptable. Keep the speaker over the stage though. Dave is right. You want the audio to "appear" to be coming from that spot. It helps get the audience immersed in what's happening.

I would investigate a higher quality speaker for above the stage. It's more likely to put the sound where you want it and to keep the sound away from where you don't want it. That is one of the things Danley excells at doing. It's less about how they sound, or how loud they get, but all about where the sound goes and doesn't go. You could then recycle your JBL's for the delay zones. Maybe throw some epoxy in the sockets once you get them aimed where you want.

I agree with Tim.  The JBL Control 30 speakers have a 120x110 coverage pattern, so it's not surprising that they don't seem to throw very far.  A different speaker with a tighter horn pattern will generally give a longer throw and help steer the sound where you need it to go. 
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genepensiero

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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2019, 06:19:39 pm »

Thanks for all the responses guys. I appreciate it.
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Re: FOH Speakers vs. Side Fills
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2019, 06:19:39 pm »


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