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Author Topic: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?  (Read 972 times)

John Penkala

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Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« on: May 06, 2019, 11:26:41 am »

It looks like I am able to get more frequencies in this mode. I'm curious as to what the potential hazards might be when using HD mode. Any insight is appreciated.

-JP
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Xiang Cao

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2019, 11:59:47 am »

higher latency
lower range
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2019, 03:51:48 pm »

higher latency
lower range

Because high density mode sets the power at 1mw you may experience reduced coverage, but in my experience it is good enough to cover a medium sized hotel ballroom in lower Manhattan. I have tested HD mode with 38 ULXD handheld transmitters at the Conrad Hotel successfully. We ultimately went with regular power because we had the spectrum available, but we tested the system in HD mode with no dropouts or low signal level indication.

I have no knowledge of any increased latency, since we did not measure latency in our test, and don't know where it would come from.

Mac
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2019, 04:56:09 pm »

A guy who I trust for advice about wireless told me that he discourages its use if not strictly necessary because if an interfering source should appear randomly at the exact wrong frequency, then a whole bunch of mics would be taken out rather than one. And, all would need to be quickly moved to new frequencies.

If you have to use a lot of mics in an area with not much bandwidth available, then your choices are limited.

Don't know about the latency and haven't checked for that.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2019, 06:04:29 pm »

A guy who I trust for advice about wireless told me that he discourages its use if not strictly necessary because if an interfering source should appear randomly at the exact wrong frequency, then a whole bunch of mics would be taken out rather than one. And, all would need to be quickly moved to new frequencies.

If you have to use a lot of mics in an area with not much bandwidth available, then your choices are limited.

Don't know about the latency and haven't checked for that.

If something pops up it may take out 2-3 mics, but that is not so different than the 1-2 with full power ULX-D. Channel spacing in HD mode is 125KHz rather than 400KHz. It is unlikely anyone uses HD mode if they don't have to, so you can either go with 1/3 the number of mics in the available spectrum or take the risk that some interferance that would normally effect 1-2 mic will effect 2-3.

Mac
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2019, 06:41:11 pm »

higher latency
lower range

With ULXD, there is no change in latency between standard and HD modes. This is only the case with Axient Digital and the Microflex series.
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Henry Cohen

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Jordan Wolf

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Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2019, 04:56:43 am »

It looks like I am able to get more frequencies in this mode. I'm curious as to what the potential hazards might be when using HD mode. Any insight is appreciated.

-JP
I really only consider HD Mode if I have a bunch of units in close proximity (think conference breakout rooms vs General Session).

This past week, a corporate event I did jumped from 30 wireless mics to 62 wireless mics almost overnight - 32 of them were concentrated on 2 adjacent floors in rooms next to each other.

I was limited in the selection of frequency bands I could choose due to the last-minute nature of things, but everything worked out well.

I had a mix of UHF-R kits (18 J5, 6 G1) and QLXD/ULXD (28 G50, 4 H50, 6 J50) and I still had no need for HD Mode eve though things were located so closely.

If spectrum had been more limited, I would have done things differently. Personally, Iíd lower Tx power and keep the default spacing, simply because there would be less interaction between units.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 04:59:33 am by Jordan Wolf »
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Jordan Wolf
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John Penkala

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2019, 02:22:56 pm »

Because high density mode sets the power at 1mw you may experience reduced coverage, but in my experience it is good enough to cover a medium sized hotel ballroom in lower Manhattan. I have tested HD mode with 38 ULXD handheld transmitters at the Conrad Hotel successfully. We ultimately went with regular power because we had the spectrum available, but we tested the system in HD mode with no dropouts or low signal level indication.

I have no knowledge of any increased latency, since we did not measure latency in our test, and don't know where it would come from.

Mac





Thanks Mac and everyone else for their input. It's truly appreciated. For this show, I stopped counting channels at 226. Most of it was Shure wireless, Axient, ULXD, and UHFR. With the exception of a few glitches early on that were corrected quickly, all went well. Thanks again. -JP
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2019, 09:43:49 pm »

For this show, I stopped counting channels at 226...
Thatís quite the frequency count - I hope you had some others to help wrangle!

Any way you can give us some more info about the gig and why so much RF was needed?
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Jordan Wolf
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"We want our sound to go into the soul of the audience, and see if it can awaken some little thing in their minds... Cause there are so many sleeping people." - Jimi Hendrix

John Penkala

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2019, 08:30:10 am »

Thatís quite the frequency count - I hope you had some others to help wrangle!

Any way you can give us some more info about the gig and why so much RF was needed?

Jordan,
           This was a typical corporate show. There are a bunch of small breakout rooms. Each of which had up to 6 RF mics. There were 20 channels of Axient Digital in the general session. And, about 20 channels on the exhibition hall floor. PSM900 and PSM1000 IEM transmitters in PTP mode were used to feed remote speakers. There were also camera teams with Sennheiser G3 systems. Com was FreespeakII. This show's channel count was higher than normal but not extreme. When I get accurate preliminary information to base the coordination on, these shows go off without a hitch and are generally problem free. However, there are always going to be additional units deployed and guest media/news organizations who will need frequencies. The real problems occur when transmitters are used onsite that weren't advanced. The more accurate information you get in advance, the better.
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2019, 03:44:00 pm »

There are a bunch of small breakout rooms. Each of which had up to 6 RF mics. There were 20 channels of Axient Digital in the general session. And, about 20 channels on the exhibition hall floor. PSM900 and PSM1000 IEM transmitters in PTP mode were used to feed remote speakers. There were also camera teams with Sennheiser G3 systems. Com was FreespeakII.
Ah, I see. That makes more sense. Thanks for the insight - some more questions, if you donít mind:

Did you have backup freqs. for each device, or just a generic list to cutover to if something was funky?

Were you able to monitor all systems from a central location, or did you have a few networks you hooked up to in those areas? (Specifically thinking all the breakouts vs the GS and exhibit floor)


Quote
When I get accurate preliminary information to base the coordination on, these shows go off without a hitch and are generally problem free. However, there are always going to be additional units deployed and guest media/news organizations who will need frequencies. The real problems occur when transmitters are used onsite that weren't advanced. The more accurate information you get in advance, the better.
Definitely. One can only be certain if thereís s known quantity - at least as certain as one can be with anything wireless, haha.

Iíve done similar setups and would have like to try out HD Mode with higher channel counts like you were asking about, but only had UHF-R packs to work with.

Did you deploy any ULXD goosenecks, or just lavs & handhelds? I havenít had the chance to use them myself (yet).
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Jordan Wolf
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"We want our sound to go into the soul of the audience, and see if it can awaken some little thing in their minds... Cause there are so many sleeping people." - Jimi Hendrix

John Penkala

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Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 03:57:31 pm »

Ah, I see. That makes more sense. Thanks for the insight - some more questions, if you donít mind:

Did you have backup freqs. for each device, or just a generic list to cutover to if something was funky?

Were you able to monitor all systems from a central location, or did you have a few networks you hooked up to in those areas? (Specifically thinking all the breakouts vs the GS and exhibit floor)

Definitely. One can only be certain if thereís s known quantity - at least as certain as one can be with anything wireless, haha.

Iíve done similar setups and would have like to try out HD Mode with higher channel counts like you were asking about, but only had UHF-R packs to work with.

Did you deploy any ULXD goosenecks, or just lavs & handhelds? I havenít had the chance to use them myself (yet).



I had backup frequencies for each frequency band in each zone.

Some of the larger rooms had small LAN's with workbench running. I did not have remote control /monitoring for this show. Although sometimes I will set up a LAN and attach 80-120 units to configure them before a show.

HD mode was really helpful on this show. The only problems were human factor issues, not RF issues. Things like antennas plugged into cascade ports, antennas positioned wrong (not in line of sight, etc.), and wrong frequencies programmed. Basically, you need to follow basic "RF 101" practices when using HD mode. Of course one should always follow RF best practices but the 1mw HD mode isn't as forgiving as the normal 10mw deployment. If you have common sense and a little RF knowledge, it works extremely well.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Shure ULXD HD mode: What are the trade offs?
¬ę Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 03:57:31 pm ¬Ľ


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