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Author Topic: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker  (Read 1326 times)

Jon Goin

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Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« on: April 26, 2019, 12:38:07 pm »

A VIP speaker at international conferences has a quiet voice. His Schoeps CCM41 and Audix M1280B mics have LED reading lights on the booms and need to be away from his mouth. He can't wear a headmic or lav because of mobility concerns.
I'm still looking for a mic that can pick up his voice better and reject feedback in large halls.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Jon
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2019, 03:07:51 pm »

Would you kindly, fix your display/user name as per the forum rules.

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html

Thanks
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Jon Goin

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2019, 03:39:16 pm »

Got it--I actually started out right and misunderstood that I had to change something...
Thanks.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 04:21:06 pm »

Sorry, but I'm unclear how he is doing it now.

It sounds like this is a setup he takes with him to different events.
Is it wireless now?
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Jon Goin

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 05:23:38 pm »

Currently he's in a wheelchair holding notes, with either a Schoeps CCM41 or Audix 1280B on long low booms.
The mics have to be a little far back so he can move and he speaks quietly.
Anything closer would be better but I can't move in.
Boundary mics and shotguns are out--I've tried everything there.
My next attempts are Earthworks and DPA small caps with the same style of integrated cable booms.
I also just saw the idea of AKG 535Bs and have some old ones--worth a try.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2019, 08:18:43 pm »

Headworn mic (wired or wireless) and a separate reading light.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 01:24:27 am »

Headworn mic (wired or wireless) and a separate reading light.
Yes that's my question, why can't you run a DPA headworn with a quality witeless?

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

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Keith Broughton

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 06:52:32 am »

I have worked with Rick Hansen ( man in motion wheel chair guy...)and he uses a headset wireless and it works great.
As for the reading light for the notes, I take it the person has a binder or clipboard , or something, with the notes on so you could use a small LED clip light.
A tablet would be something to consider as well.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2019, 10:51:39 am »

I've worked with several presenters in chairs and so far they've expected an ear set mic of some kind and usually have a pretty clear idea of where the transmitter can be placed and how to dress the mic lead.  Wheel chairs present their own RF challenges regarding transmitter placement and the more sophisticated the chair the greater the challenges.

But in a wheel chair or not, sometimes we have to inform the presenter that his/her/their desires are not consistent with *effective delivery of the message* the presenter wishes to impart, and solicit the presenter's input for changes that will help accomplish presenter's goals.

edit ps - Jon, I'm sympathetic to your situation (and a bit envious of your budget) but perhaps it's worth the mention to your client that "loudest sound at the mic, wins."  Unless you can reduce the distance between capsule and voice source, any current issues will continue.  The client needs to be aware that in spite of the incredible industrial-bio technologies that give your client mobility and some dignity, those technologies do not rewrite the laws of physics.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 10:56:48 am by Tim McCulloch »
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Jon Goin

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2019, 11:02:12 am »

Thank you all for the helpful info and suggestions. I don't have access to work email at home, so a little late getting back.

I understand that one can't defy basic audio/physics principles regarding mic distance and live sound, and totally agree that the ideal approach would be a headworn/wireless system.

There is also an acute sensitivity to environmental/EMF factors that preclude using headworn or wireless. A while back I conducted a shootout with top-shelf shotguns on our church stage which simulates a convention/large hotel ballroom, but even the best couldn't do it with the open loop/live sound component.

I very much appreciate the pro comments here, and will recommend that whatever mic we use, it has to be closer.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2019, 11:52:30 am »

Thank you all for the helpful info and suggestions. I don't have access to work email at home, so a little late getting back.

I understand that one can't defy basic audio/physics principles regarding mic distance and live sound, and totally agree that the ideal approach would be a headworn/wireless system.

There is also an acute sensitivity to environmental/EMF factors that preclude using headworn or wireless. A while back I conducted a shootout with top-shelf shotguns on our church stage which simulates a convention/large hotel ballroom, but even the best couldn't do it with the open loop/live sound component.

I very much appreciate the pro comments here, and will recommend that whatever mic we use, it has to be closer.

Like Dave said earlier, use a wired headworn mic.

It doesn't have to be wireless.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2019, 12:28:10 pm »


There is also an acute sensitivity to environmental/EMF factors that preclude using headworn or wireless.

How is a wired headworn generating any significant emf?
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Jon Goin

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2019, 03:42:07 pm »

For those who aren't affected by EMR/EMF it's nothing. For others it's something serious to avoid.
I wasn't aware of MCS (multiple chemical sensitivities, etc.) until pretty recently.
Some folks have big reactions and can't be near it.
It's hard to describe unless you know someone who's there (not imaginary--research...)
Thanks.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2019, 06:41:53 pm »

For those who aren't affected by EMR/EMF it's nothing. For others it's something serious to avoid.
I wasn't aware of MCS (multiple chemical sensitivities, etc.) until pretty recently.
Some folks have big reactions and can't be near it.
It's hard to describe unless you know someone who's there (not imaginary--research...)
Thanks.

Then it sounds like your best hope is a speech therapist and voice coach if head-worn is out.

Is the issue with head-worn a matter of chemical/metal reactions with the user?  If so there might be some way to create barriers to avoid off-gassing or skin contact.  If the user is affected by the EMF of voltage at the microphone level, it's over.  See first sentence.  I don't envy you for this challenge.

Perhaps another thing to look at is the noise floor of the halls, auditoriums or rooms the presentations are given in.  Every dB of noise floor drop is a dB of gain you don't have to add.  It might be helpful to have them turn off HVAC before the presentation and keep it off until the presenter is done.  Moving lights, video projectors, all kinds of stuff have fans that produce noise with spectral content that seems intended to interfere with intelligibility.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 06:44:56 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Mike Caldwell

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2019, 08:47:36 pm »

 I just did a quick read on MCS. In his case is it the skin contact of a headset mic and or the close proximity to the RF of a body pack transmitter that causes the issue.

MikeHarris

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2019, 03:03:08 am »

We had a interesting need..non MCS related solution.
One of our church clients that uses the Que audio headset (formerly DaCappo) had a motivational speaker needing a mic...but due to a horrific fire had no ears. We supplied the DPA necklace mic which seems to be no longer available.
The CCM is indeed as the top of the pile for quality...and it seems the fancy/expensive boom accessory is in use. Due to medical issues a creative solution is required.
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Jon Goin

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2019, 10:17:26 am »

Thanks again for your helpful input and suggestions--well taken and I'll look into them!

I use Que headsets mostly and find them the most natural and clear.
The adjustable boom length and petite model are great options.
I'm sure DPA is great, but many others haven't compared.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2019, 01:07:50 pm »


There is also an acute sensitivity to environmental/EMF factors that preclude using headworn or wireless.
Could you expand on this?
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Jon Goin

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2019, 03:52:05 pm »

EMField or EMRadiation. There's a bit more in earlier posts, and any search will yield overview info sites plus many companies that specialize in shielding, clothing, gadget accessories, etc.

5G will certainly change the world, though its higher frequencies seem to require more power and numerous, lower to the ground antannae for distribution in urban areas.

OK, I 'm not trying to start another thread or further the discussion here!  :)

Thanks again everyone and I'll build on your helpful input and suggestions.

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2019, 01:31:17 pm »

I know that chemical reactions resulting from metals, plastics and other chemicals touching human skin can and do cause problems and that some folks have much more significant reactions that other folks.

The RF/EM... is easier to dismiss without research and from my brief reading I'm not sure what to make of it other than a small number of folks appear to be headed for a very tough time as more and more devices are made to connect exclusively via RF.  My gut reaction after reading some of the more hysterical stuff is that for a significant number of people their RF/EM sensitivity is... uh... psychosomatic.  Again, for a very small number of individuals this is real (kind of like people who claim they have a particular food allergy but only have symptoms when they think the food product might be around - many of them don't have a genuine allergy) but for others it seems suspicious.

Jon, is there any hope of increasing your presenter's vocal output via physiological training and voice coaching?  One of my college voice professors developed a method of teaching speech to people who'd received a laryngectomy as treatment for throat cancer.  Far better than the Ma Bell throat vibrator, one grateful alumni gave the college a crushed cinder track (the music dept got nothing, it was an interesting look at "gratitude" in academia).  That scenario, and having worked with singing coaches who have helped with  breathing issues and phonation/diction problems for public speakers, I'm holding out hope that your client can find the right person to help.  Between a 6dB lower noise floor and 3dB increase in his output, you might get a significant improvement in audibility and intelligibility.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Nathan Riddle

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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2019, 01:43:27 pm »

https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs296/en/

If DPA can put mics on Mars I'm sure there are plenty of mics that don't elicit chemical reactions.

Also, if this person can withstand a dynamic/condenser mic in close proximity to their face on a boom along with the hundreds of RF emitting cellphones and wifi devices in the room they can definitely handle a tiny headset mic on their face. I would talk to DPA and have them custom build you a mic to this speaker's needs.
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Re: Challenge: mic for quiet VIP speaker
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2019, 01:43:27 pm »


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