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Author Topic: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?  (Read 1055 times)

Wayne Smith2

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Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« on: April 25, 2019, 04:05:51 pm »

We have a small venue outdoor gig, they supply four single-12 two way powered cabs. JBL Eon612's I believe.
Most of the audience will seated and back a ways from the stage and I don't believe coverage would be compromised much here.
I was considering placing the two front pair and monitor pair in a ground cluster front and center.
It seems like doing this would be a way to extract a bit more low end headroom from them. (Floor and group coupling?) Wanted to run it by the board, see if there's holes in this idea?
Thanks
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 04:09:41 pm by Wayne Smith2 »
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2019, 06:14:34 pm »

I'd put them in position to optimise mid-high coverage, and then maybe use the second pair lowpassed at 150Hz for a bit of bottom end grunt.

Does the music require more LF output than you suspect the speakers can give?

Chris
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Wayne Smith2

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2019, 08:03:18 pm »

I'd put them in position to optimise mid-high coverage, and then maybe use the second pair lowpassed at 150Hz for a bit of bottom end grunt.

Does the music require more LF output than you suspect the speakers can give?

Chris
One pair will be FOH, the second are the monitor pair.

The goal is to pick up some low extension and level from what would otherwise be a pair of FOH 12s on sticks.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 08:08:11 pm by Wayne Smith2 »
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2019, 09:19:57 pm »

This is a complete no win situation. If you ground couple the speakers and that ground plane isn't at least an elevated stage that puts the speakers overhead of most of the audience you lose all projection.  If you try to get any real bass or kick out of these things you will compromise all mid clarity. The only solution is to put the speakers where they will best cover the audience and live with whatever spectral compromise that presents even if it means everything on stage gets an 80hz highpass...or bring in more PA.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 03:11:11 am »

I would just add a single sub and be done with it.  Everything else is such a mess and time waste.  If you donít have one, hire or borrow.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2019, 12:04:03 pm »

I would just add a single sub and be done with it.  Everything else is such a mess and time waste.  If you donít have one, hire or borrow.

You speak the truth. 

If there is not Enough Rig for the Gig it seems Wayne has 2 choices - bring a suitable rig (or have it provided), or decline the gig.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Wayne Smith2

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2019, 01:55:46 pm »

Wow. This isn't a make or break' nor 'not enough rig situation. Just exploring an option to get a bit of extension out of their system. 'Projection? That is clear line of sight vs obstruction, cabs placement vs coverage. A center cluster but not overhead, no one so close as to block them, and def not a long throw' coverage situation.
I understand it's contrary to suggest non standard placement.
I'll see the place again the morning to confirm it's viable or pass.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 04:12:40 pm »

Don't put them on the floor.

About the only thing you can do is to put the mains in a corner.

That may not make sense for the particular layout, but is the only way you are going to get a bit more bass, and have less room mode issues.

But then other aspects may be compromised.

It is all about give and take and compromise
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2019, 09:18:47 pm »

Wow. This isn't a make or break' nor 'not enough rig situation. Just exploring an option to get a bit of extension out of their system. 'Projection? That is clear line of sight vs obstruction, cabs placement vs coverage. A center cluster but not overhead, no one so close as to block them, and def not a long throw' coverage situation.
I understand it's contrary to suggest non standard placement.
I'll see the place again the morning to confirm it's viable or pass.

Any additional low end from this rig is likely to be unnoticed.  As you seem to have your doubts about the sufficiency of the rig I stand by the potential "Not Enough Rig for the Gig."  The 3rd choice I didn't mention is "just play the gig" and not worry.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Mal Brown

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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2019, 09:34:29 pm »

Foh speaks on sticks and recognize that ALL rigs have their limits.  Trick is learning to stay within them.  Yes I also would add a sub if possible.  One would do it as those EONís arenít exactly barn burners...  position on the side closest to the audience is probably the best bet.  If not...  hope you have a wireless so you can get out front and balance the band to the limitations of the speaks.

Then... donít stress.  Kick back and enjoy the gig.
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Re: Small gig, no sub, question re placement to aid low end?
¬ę Reply #9 on: April 26, 2019, 09:34:29 pm ¬Ľ


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