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[Justice C. Bigler]

Which one is the more expensive one?

The SD7 by a long shot.


But, it's also a more mature system, has more third party integration and still has more inputs and outputs than the PM10 does. I think the PM10 also weighs less though, and it certainly has  a lower profile than the SD7, in case moving it and sight lines are important to your equation.

[brian maddox]

The SD7 by a long shot.


But, it's also a more mature system, has more third party integration and still has more inputs and outputs than the PM10 does. I think the PM10 also weighs less though, and it certainly has  a lower profile than the SD7, in case moving it and sight lines are important to your equation.

I listened to the shpiel from the Digico guy [i should really get better with names] yesterday on the SD7s new features with the new software/firmware.  it does some cool things [spice rack, mustard rack], although the only thing that got my actual attention was the whole Separate EQ on an individual Aux send thing, which is admittedly a pretty big deal so long as you don't get lost doing it along the way. 

But....  I also fiddled with the SD7 and it utterly failed my fiddle test.  I just did NOT like the feel of the knobs [like a LOT did not like] and the size of a LOT of the virtual buttons and things you have to select on the touchscreen just seems crazy tiny.  Kinda my pet peeve with the Lawo MC² but i digress.

So yeah, it does a lot of stuff, but so long as the PM10 has the I/O needed, for me it's not even a fair fight.  Especially if it's cheaper.

[Justice C. Bigler]

But....  I also fiddled with the SD7 and it utterly failed my fiddle test.  I just did NOT like the feel of the knobs [like a LOT did not like] and the size of a LOT of the virtual buttons and things you have to select on the touchscreen just seems crazy tiny.  Kinda my pet peeve with the Lawo MC² but i digress.

I haven’t worked on the SD7 for any length of time, just a few minutes at a time when they came through with touring shows. But I’ve been working on the SD10 for the past 2 1/2 months now, every day, and I’m not that impressed with the fit and finish. It just feels sloppy; edges that don’t meet, faders that take a second to settle into position, the knobs just feel cheap, and the name on the side is just a sticker, not embossed or painted on.


It’s no secret that I’m a fan of the Yamaha user interface. But the DiGiCo do things that aren’t even on Yamahas radar, especially for theatre. But they take a long ass time to program and set up.


The choice between the two really has to be made based on what your expected production types and schedule are going to be, what type of work flow your engineer is more familiar and comfortable with and if there are any of the specific programming features from the DiGiCo system that you absolutely need.

[Chris Hindle]

The choice between the two really has to be made based on what your expected production types and schedule are going to be, what type of work flow your engineer is more familiar and comfortable with and if there are any of the specific programming features from the DiGiCo system that you absolutely need.

In other words, the RIGHT tool for the job.
(as always)
Chris.

[Tim McCulloch]

This is for a community theater group or university PAC?  I'd skip the Rivage and SD7, find other options and use the difference in cost to buy wireless mics, audio network infrastructure, and maybe upgrade parts of the PA.  Here's why:  NO TOUR will use the house desks or wiring infrastructure.  Period, nada, no one.  So who benefits from the big swinging dick console?  Local performances?  Fine, but when does a big dog console become overkill?

A great mixer is nice but if you're feeding it crap and sending its pristine and well-mixed outputs to less-than-stunning PA systems, the question is "why?"

[Justice C. Bigler]

This is for a community theater group or university PAC?  I'd skip the Rivage and SD7, find other options and use the difference in cost to buy wireless mics, audio network infrastructure, and maybe upgrade parts of the PA.  Here's why:  NO TOUR will use the house desks or wiring infrastructure.  Period, nada, no one.  So who benefits from the big swinging dick console?  Local performances?  Fine, but when does a big dog console become overkill?

A great mixer is nice but if you're feeding it crap and sending its pristine and well-mixed outputs to less-than-stunning PA systems, the question is "why?"

Agreed.


For what the OP stated in his original post, for a college PAC that is shared between music and theatre and other university events, a pair of CL5s (or a CL5 and CL3 for Mons) is probably the best choice. Spend the other $140,000 on 40 channels of wireless mics so your theatre program can mic  up all of their actors for their musicals and be able to train your student mixers on how to mix line by line. Throw in a few nice recording and pit orchestra mics and some compact powered speakers for surround effects or on stage foldback/practicals, etc...


There's better ways to spend $200,000 than just buying a single console and it's associated racks.

[Roland Clarke]

I would agree with last two posts.  I’m not a Digico fan, but the PM10 is great, typical yamaha in that it’s entirely fit for purpose.  For less money you could get into the S6L, an amazing desk, depending on what you need it for.  Justice is spot on that you could take an CL5 and get a fistful of radio systems if you are doing musical theatre or such.  It’s only a call you can make.

[Magnus Högkvist]

This is for a community theater group or university PAC?  I'd skip the Rivage and SD7, find other options and use the difference in cost to buy wireless mics, audio network infrastructure, and maybe upgrade parts of the PA.  Here's why:  NO TOUR will use the house desks or wiring infrastructure.  Period, nada, no one.  So who benefits from the big swinging dick console?  Local performances?  Fine, but when does a big dog console become overkill?

A great mixer is nice but if you're feeding it crap and sending its pristine and well-mixed outputs to less-than-stunning PA systems, the question is "why?"

This all is good points.
For me going through all Yammie digital mixers (starting from DMC1000), switching to Digico SD10T from PM5D has been fantastic.
Go for SD10T or SD9T if theater implementation is important, otherwise CL consoles is probably going to satify most people and give You room for more other upgrades.

[Erik Jerde]

What is the price difference between those 2 configured the way you want them? I was at AES the last 2 days. Is it true that the Digicos are using Windows ME as there OS?

I would lean towards the Yamaha PM10 if it were me.

That’s incorrect.  Older systems are on xp embedded and newer (12, probably 7q) are on 7 embedded.  Avid desks also run embedded windows.  It’s not a problem.  Back in my sysadmin days I observed across thousands of servers that windows was very solid until crappy third party software was installed on it.  Windows embedded is even better.

[Steve Eudaly]

Here's why:  NO TOUR will use the house desks or wiring infrastructure.  Period, nada, no one.  So who benefits from the big swinging dick console?  Local performances?  Fine, but when does a big dog console become overkill?

+1000

This is the same reason our small, regional rental house is having a hard time justifying upgrading our consoles past SC48s and X32s. Do we all want to mix on fancy, modern, big-boy consoles? Of course, but the promoters won't be paying extra for us to bring those out just to mix the support act.

I'll also agree with Tim's earlier post in that your best strategy is likely spec'ing PM10s and cutting back to CL5s when the budget squeezes.

[ProSoundWeb Community]