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Author Topic: rider question protocol  (Read 5334 times)

Len Zenith Jr

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2019, 03:51:01 am »

  Most things are negotiable, for example, Iím doing cover for a local venue with a small stage, we had an ex chart topping act though a couple of months back wanting 8 mixes on 12 monitors.  The stage is very small, they ended up with 4 wedge mixes on 4 wedges and an ear mix.  They specced Digico, Midas pro 6, Avid venue or S6l, show went off on a QU 32.  Good show, sounded good and they were happy.  Even if you have exactly what they ask for on the rider, itís good practice to ring and check, then, confirm whatís agreed on an email to cover your arse!

That is a good point if you are doing a smaller venue, sometimes when you ask for a rider you are getting a pdf of their standard(only) touring/festival rider meant for 60 foot+ outdoor stages. I was doing sound for a 350 cap club with a known touring act and got forwarded their standard festival rider. Called the promoter and told them that the listed equipment wouldn't physically fit on the stage (8 mixes on 12 monitors + sidefills on a 20 foot wide stage, just like Roland said), they gave me the tour managers phone # and the tour manager said whatever you think is appropriate for the venue we will work with. 4 wedges and everything went smooth. Call and work out the details. Almost everyone you work with wants to make it work otherwise they never would have booked in the first place.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 07:23:37 pm »

I have received the standard "tour" rider for 200 seat clubs many times.  One was for a female "name you have hear of" with an 11 piece touring band.  It stated that the four lighting trusses needed to be flown at 35' and the stage house needed 50' of clearance above the stage.  The stage required was larger than the club.  A 64 channel mixer was the minimum size for house and monitors.  I could go on and on.

She showed up with her guitar, a friend with another acoustic, and a keyboard player.  The stage was 12' X 16' with 9' of clearance over the stage.  They used 6 inputs!
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Steve Oldridge

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2019, 02:09:06 pm »

I always talk directly with the technical person from the band.  I have found that the Promoter only wants to be assured that everything has been worked out with the talent or that we will need to bring in additional equipment and it is going to cost x amount.   At that point, the Promoter can decide if they want to incur any additional cost or not.

Bill
^^^ THIS ^^^   - if extra expense is required, then contact the promoter.

I recently had to address a tech rider for a fly gig for an LA tribute band coming for a local Texas festival as the Sat night headliner. Why they were chosen when we have 2 local "tributes" available, idk.
We called them a number of times to confirm backline needs as we had to rent locally and coordinate pickup on Friday and return Monday. We had bands going on Friday, so logistics were a challenge.
They required a Korg Kronos keyboard - a $4500 arranger/synth that runs around $600 to rent.
We got it. The Sat night event was rained out, so we moved everything to a TINY indoor venue at short notice.
The band shows up for sound check and I'm helping the keyboardist set up.   The Kronos was not on the default screen so I was asked if "I knew how to get it back to it?"  I said "no, but your tech rider said you needed this unit." "Oh no" she goes "that's the other guy! i don't know anything about how to use this unit".
She pulls out a MIDI cable and a external sound unit and used the Kronos as a MIDI controller !!  /SMH  Seriously!!   >:( ???
I plugged the external unit into the PA.
This was after NUMEROUS conversations with the BL !!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 03:04:09 pm by Steve Oldridge »
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Rob Spence

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2019, 03:42:50 pm »

I did a DJ event for a prep school.
They had a DJ coming up to NH from NYC.
The rider required 2 wireless hand held mics. I provide and billed.

When he arrived we hooked up the stuff he traveled with and I asked about sound checking the mics.

He said he didnít need them. I put a wired SM58 on a desk stand near him.

He didnít say a work through the PA all night.
Sigh...



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Miguel Dahl

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2019, 04:15:35 pm »

I did a DJ event for a prep school.
They had a DJ coming up to NH from NYC.
The rider required 2 wireless hand held mics. I provide and billed.

When he arrived we hooked up the stuff he traveled with and I asked about sound checking the mics.

He said he didnít need them. I put a wired SM58 on a desk stand near him.

He didnít say a work through the PA all night.
Sigh...



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I try to deliver on spec according to a rider. And I charge for it too, even if it's left unused. For a DJ-set I don't call management and ask if the rider is current. For a DJ in a club it's often not much in the riders I receive, like how can you not have a correct rider if the rider is a few decks, mixer and a wireless? Especially annoying if I had to toss a few other jobs around which are not rider-jobs to meet the rider in this particular job. I guess the joke is somewhat on me because of not reaching out to the management or artist themselves beforehand, but you send a rider. It's small, make sure it's correct. Is it really necessary  to contact the artist themselves, that's why they have a management.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 04:20:39 pm by Miguel Dahl »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2019, 06:18:01 pm »

The Kronos was not on the default screen so I was asked if "I knew how to get it back to it?"  I said "no, but your tech rider said you needed this unit." "Oh no" she goes "that's the other guy! i don't know anything about how to use this unit".
She pulls out a MIDI cable and a external sound unit and used the Kronos as a MIDI controller !!  /SMH  Seriously!!   >:( ???
I plugged the external unit into the PA.
This was after NUMEROUS conversations with the BL !!

They don't care.  If the band leader didn't blow you off outright he was more polite than most.

I've hired in, at great cost, various Special Magic Boxen that are ESSENTIAL to the show, only to have the band's mixerperson blink eyes and ask "what's that?"  On one show several years ago the FedEx and rental fees almost double the cost of audio to the promoter, who was understandably unhappy that these precious and required devices went unused (for the most part).  Do you think anyone connected with the band gave a shit about this?  Nope, not a single person, whether performer, leader, agent or manager gave a flying fuck.

I now encourage promoters to cross out these special requests.  One goes so far as to rubber stamp each page of the rider, and over the signatures, the sentence "MUST use provided sound & lights."  The agents sign it and when the band wanks over what was provided the promoter points to what the agent agreed to.

They can play the show and sell their merch or they can load the trailer and leave.  So far, they've all played their shows.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2019, 08:24:03 pm »

They don't care.  If the band leader didn't blow you off outright he was more polite than most.

I've hired in, at great cost, various Special Magic Boxen that are ESSENTIAL to the show, only to have the band's mixerperson blink eyes and ask "what's that?" 
I've rented in special gear-effects in particular, and have the FOH guy ask me how to use them.

I don't know, YOU requested it.  I know how to use MY effects, but YOU should know how to use the ones YOU said you MUST have.

And then they get mad at you for not being able to read their minds, when THEY would not return your calls.

Oh well-it makes for a bunch of interesting stories.
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William Schnake

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2019, 07:56:27 pm »

The worst one that I have had and I know this is a swerve from the topic was as follows.  We have to have a Digico SD7 according to the TM.  We went over this in 6 conversation including 2 days before the show.  We rented one from a National House.  We got to the show and I asked the FoH engineer 'What makes this board so special?'  He say nothing, what kind of shop do you run.  I answered Midas Pro.  He said do you have a Pro 2 or Pro X.  I told him that we had a Pro 2 and he said that it would have been great to use.  We would have charged the client $500 for the Pro 2 with snake.  However, because I couldn't get past the TM we had to rent the SD7 for $3,500 plus travel to Chicago and back on two day.  We could have saved the client $3,750 if we could have talked to the right person.

Bill
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Dan Godwin

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2019, 10:16:13 pm »

Thanks for all the replies and the various suggestions.  I'm glad the question sparked some interesting conversations and I hope they continue.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: rider question protocol
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2019, 08:34:39 am »

The most ridiculous I ran across was for a fly-in date.
We provided the system and backline. The artist and band was from Iran.
(This was a year before the Gulf War...)
Everything was "reasonable" except for 3 FX processors they "Had to have"
They were "rare" to say the least. No luck tracking them down in town.
So I talked to the promoter, and yup, they needed to be there. I got ahold of the provider at the stop before Montreal, and arranged to fed-ex the processors to us, and we'd pay the extra rental and ship back to the rental house.
Show day comes, and at soundcheck, I ask the "artist" how he want's the processors set up. "I don't care, just give me a heavy reverb in my monitor, and do what you want in the house."
Wow. I had DSP-16, DSP-128, and a Yammi SPX90 that could have worked quite nicely, and save 400 bucks to boot.

As pretty much everyone else has seen, "WE NEED that new mixer from XYZ", and the traveling FOH dude can't even hook it up, never mind make a show...
We've cleared the board. Where's your show file?
"Huh?"
Chris. 
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Re: rider question protocol
¬ę Reply #19 on: May 01, 2019, 08:34:39 am ¬Ľ


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