ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)  (Read 1514 times)

Jonathan Hiemberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 293
How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« on: April 18, 2019, 06:47:21 pm »

I'm looking at a simple install in a medium-sized church with a high ceiling.


Room is appx 80' wide by 50' deep, with 25' ceilings.


Stage height is only 2', with the closest seats 10' from the podium.


So - if the speaker was all the way to the ceiling, it would be about 17' above the speakers head.


My question is, is there a rule of thumb or guideline to help decide how high they can go before it gets weird? It seems like the localization would be very odd with that much separation.
Logged

Stephen Swaffer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2019, 10:11:33 pm »

Those dimensions are close to our auditorium-including height of speakers- in 25+ I've never heard any negative comment or anyone feeling that the sound was coming from the wrong place.  (I did not do the install)
Logged
Steve Swaffer

Sean Chen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 240
    • Pristine Audio
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2019, 10:28:05 pm »

I'm looking at a simple install in a medium-sized church with a high ceiling.

Room is appx 80' wide by 50' deep, with 25' ceilings.

Stage height is only 2', with the closest seats 10' from the podium.

So - if the speaker was all the way to the ceiling, it would be about 17' above the speakers head.

My question is, is there a rule of thumb or guideline to help decide how high they can go before it gets weird? It seems like the localization would be very odd with that much separation.

The rule of thumb I go by is: the higher it is, the more uniform the sound distribution will be, and the more efficient sound projection will be. Think of it as sun at noon vs. sun at dawn/dusk.

What do you mean by localization?

Having said that, 17' is not that high. What you need to do is find the best match of speakers' that will cover the entire area evenly, wide and depth, at the height that can be realistically installed. 80 ft is pretty wide, so getting the speakers high will help. Most speakers' lateral dispersion is no more than 120 deg (if you go line array), and most point source box is 90 deg wide or less.
Logged
Pristine Audio
Authorized dealer for Allen & Heath, Countryman, Danley Sound Labs, Dynaudio, Electro-Voice, Gator Cases, HK Audio, K&M, Mackie, MiPro, RCF,  Yorkville
www.pristine-audio.com

Caleb Dueck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1265
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2019, 10:50:41 pm »

I'm looking at a simple install in a medium-sized church with a high ceiling.


Room is appx 80' wide by 50' deep, with 25' ceilings.


Stage height is only 2', with the closest seats 10' from the podium.


So - if the speaker was all the way to the ceiling, it would be about 17' above the speakers head.


My question is, is there a rule of thumb or guideline to help decide how high they can go before it gets weird? It seems like the localization would be very odd with that much separation.

That height is fine. 

Our ears are spaced horizontally, so our height localization isn't as acute as our horizontal localization. 

If it were higher, lip fills help "pull" the image down for the first few rows. 

In the past, lip fills were used most when the mains were high (30'+) and/or the first row was right up to the platform. 

Lip fills can always be tested after the main install to see if they help or hinder.  Small "underbalcony" speakers with yoke brackets are often perfect. 
Logged
Experience is something you get right after you need it.

Mal Brown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2019, 11:07:11 pm »

Get em up high, supplement with front fill
Logged
Bass player, sound guy.
Fb Gorge Sound and Light
WillyandNelson.com

Jeff Bankston

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2375
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 11:20:06 pm »

Hang them above everyones head and then some. hang em high


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngXR-vnz0y8




« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 05:40:59 am by Jeff Bankston »
Logged

Jonathan Hiemberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 293
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2019, 11:29:57 am »

The rule of thumb I go by is: the higher it is, the more uniform the sound distribution will be, and the more efficient sound projection will be. Think of it as sun at noon vs. sun at dawn/dusk.

What do you mean by localization?


I guess I'm just trying to picture myself, if the pastor was 10' in front of me, but the speaker was hung 17' above his head (24' or so above mine, counting stage height).


It seems like there would be an odd separation where I'm hearing the pastor's voice direct, but then the amplified sound coming from above.


Am I over thinking it?
Logged

Sean Chen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 240
    • Pristine Audio
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2019, 12:10:56 pm »


I guess I'm just trying to picture myself, if the pastor was 10' in front of me, but the speaker was hung 17' above his head (24' or so above mine, counting stage height).


It seems like there would be an odd separation where I'm hearing the pastor's voice direct, but then the amplified sound coming from above.


Am I over thinking it?

In most situations, the PA sound will be much louder than the person's voice, even at 1st row.
Logged
Pristine Audio
Authorized dealer for Allen & Heath, Countryman, Danley Sound Labs, Dynaudio, Electro-Voice, Gator Cases, HK Audio, K&M, Mackie, MiPro, RCF,  Yorkville
www.pristine-audio.com

Alec Spence

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 433
  • Herts, UK
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2019, 12:12:20 pm »

Am I over thinking it?
You're underestimating the brain's ability to overcome conflicting signals and just focus on the content.
Logged

Laurence Nefzger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 55
  • Kirkland, WA USA
Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2019, 12:31:01 pm »

I'm looking at a simple install in a medium-sized church with a high ceiling.


Room is appx 80' wide by 50' deep, with 25' ceilings.


Stage height is only 2', with the closest seats 10' from the podium.


So - if the speaker was all the way to the ceiling, it would be about 17' above the speakers head.


My question is, is there a rule of thumb or guideline to help decide how high they can go before it gets weird? It seems like the localization would be very odd with that much separation.
There is quite a bit of information on this subject posted over the years. But a quick summary. The ultimate goal is "the same sound in every seat". Generally speaking if the coverage has every seat within 6db of each other in terms of sound pressure level then mission accomplished. Volume drops off (generally) 6dB per doubling of distance. So it stands to reason that by going higher you can attempt to equalize the distance between the speaker and the front rows and the speaker and the back rows. By getting that distance more the same the more even the coverage.
The point made about the location of human ears is a great point. Humans localize far better in the horizontal plane than the vertical plane. That said using lip fills can "pull" down the image. These fills when delayed appropriately can be run at a volume level that is contained to the first couple of rows. They may not be needed if those first couple rows are within the mains coverage pattern.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: How high is too high? (Speaker placement)
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2019, 12:31:01 pm »


Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.05 seconds with 24 queries.