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Author Topic: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location  (Read 669 times)

Kelly_Dodge

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Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« on: April 15, 2019, 06:00:04 pm »

So, I'm working with a venue that does outdoor concerts in their parking lot each summer. We've been running power and CAT5s for a digital snake in a cable ramp setup. They'd like to use a trench instead.

So, I'd like to run 1 or 2 20 amp circuits and 6 or 8 CAT5/6 runs under a parking lot, maybe 80-100 feet. (In separate conduits.)

The stage end is pretty near a building. Can we tie in to the building power, run wires inside a conduit, and put a couple receptacles at the FOH end? Does it need it's own breaker box? (Jacks for the CAT5/6 seem pretty straightforward.)

Should I build some kind of pedestal (maybe with bollards?) or would it be better to put it in some traffic rated box in the ground? Is that run far enough I should put a pull box in the middle?

Just starting meetings to decide how it all works, and there is a local underground contractor that is volunteering to do the actual work...

Thanks!

-Kelly
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 06:19:36 pm »

Hi Kelly-

I suggest consulting with a licensed electrician in your locale.  Too many unknowns to give internet answers.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 07:40:42 pm »

I will say you need to think about running a good ole fashion analog snake as well, at least a 12 X 4. Also use shielded CAT cable there's some equipment that has issues when connected with non shielded CAT cables.

Be sure to weather protect the connectors, that's tough to do, even if not directly exposed to the weather the connections will oxidize, no one will plug into a green oxidized connector.

That all said.... depending on the level of acts they bring in short of maybe power they may very well insist on using their own snake cables ect. from FOH to the stage.

Kelly_Dodge

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 07:56:05 pm »

I will say you need to think about running a good ole fashion analog snake as well, at least a 12 X 4. Also use shielded CAT cable there's some equipment that has issues when connected with non shielded CAT cables.

Be sure to weather protect the connectors, that's tough to do, even if not directly exposed to the weather the connections will oxidize, no one will plug into a green oxidized connector.

That all said.... depending on the level of acts they bring in short of maybe power they may very well insist on using their own snake cables ect. from FOH to the stage.

Thank you for the thoughts...

They use me almost exclusively for sound. In 30+ shows over 3 years, we've only used another snake once. If it came to that, I'd just get the cable ramps back out I think. (They don't have the budget for national acts. My little M32 rig has almost always been enough...)

-Kelly
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Jeff Bankston

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2019, 03:09:05 am »

Hi Kelly-

I suggest consulting with a licensed electrician in your locale.  Too many unknowns to give internet answers.
^ This ! ^ I am a retired commercial electrician.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 02:30:28 pm »

Don't "build your own" power pedestal. Using a traffic-rated vault is an invitation to corrosion.

For a relatively cheap solution, take a look at RV power pedestals. I'd recommend two 20A 120V circuits and a 50A 120/240V circuit, such as this one: https://www.milbankworks.com/products/catalog/U5200-XL-76GR (there are other brands, too; this is just the first I found). You might not need the 240V circuit now, but having it will give you the ability to expand offerings in the future. A 50A 120/240V circuit at the stage can also be useful.

For the low voltage stuff, run conduit to NEMA Type 4 electrical enclosures, with hinged door and weatherstripping. You can open the enclosure when you need to connect.

Alternatively, have a custom panel containing power and low voltage sections built by a UL-listed panel shop.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 04:34:13 pm »

Don't "build your own" power pedestal. Using a traffic-rated vault is an invitation to corrosion.

For a relatively cheap solution, take a look at RV power pedestals. I'd recommend two 20A 120V circuits and a 50A 120/240V circuit, such as this one: https://www.milbankworks.com/products/catalog/U5200-XL-76GR (there are other brands, too; this is just the first I found). You might not need the 240V circuit now, but having it will give you the ability to expand offerings in the future. A 50A 120/240V circuit at the stage can also be useful.

For the low voltage stuff, run conduit to NEMA Type 4 electrical enclosures, with hinged door and weatherstripping. You can open the enclosure when you need to connect.

Alternatively, have a custom panel containing power and low voltage sections built by a UL-listed panel shop.

He is looking for mix position power, not stage power. 50a is a bit much unless using dual H3000s and winter heaters.
For an X32 or other moderate mixer, a pair of 20a is great.

For the stage end, sure.



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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 06:39:11 pm »

For power, 100 feet is no problem-and breakers ideally would be in the building.  Probably run #10 wire to avoid voltage drop.  They make boxes designed for traffic-and to me that would be less of an issue when not being used.  Use a licensed electrician-but this is what I would want him to do.  I'm a licensed contractor-there are details that need to be heeded to keep this safe.

A local venue uses an in ground box with a snake - actually uses a circular connector that is easy to waterproof and then the fan out just plugs in.

You can run Cat 5/6-just keep in mind that the NEC considers below grade conduit a "wet location" for a good reason=probably best to run a direct burial cable inside the conduit.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 06:48:26 pm »

He is looking for mix position power, not stage power. 50a is a bit much unless using dual H3000s and winter heaters.
For an X32 or other moderate mixer, a pair of 20a is great.

For the stage end, sure.



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Make sure to pull enough power to add a future spotlight or two.


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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Permanent Outdoor FOH Location
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 08:52:11 pm »

In the words of Carroll Shelby: "Too much power is just right."
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