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Author Topic: Biamp support.  (Read 954 times)

Mike Shriner.Jr

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Biamp support.
« on: April 09, 2019, 11:04:25 am »

Hello
I'm own a small Production herein Iowa and over the past years the shows have been getting bigger and bigger. So I've been running down the dream of going somewhere in this business and started putting some serious money (to me) in my gear.
I started with, Jbl sound factory set bought from a lazer tag/ arcade bar that closed down, mixed on a mg24fx.  Two years later I picked up a 32*SoundcraftGB4, two Yorkville ls801p's with the ef500p tops.
well, now im sitting with a X18, x32, two york ls1208's and four Second hand e2152's that came from the "Big Dog" of my state. (He has retired his york lines and moved onto RCF line array. fuck do they sound good!)
Anyways, the E2152s have some problems. two of the four are actually e2104's, but the boxes are exactly the same besides drivers, fly points, and two handles towards the bottom on each side. Im guessing it was just a update. I cant even find the e2104's on yorks legacy items.
 So, one of the 2104's is just the box with its hf and its mutilated crossover , it was chosen for to be parts for an un-known reason.
(sorry for the long post guys.)
I've deiced to bi-amp all of them. Unless I end up restoring them to original for nostalgic reason I don't see the point in sending them off to be fixed. (I can do basic stuff, not trouble shoot a 12x8 crossover.)

so the drivers
low/mid side
rcf- L15K80Y
500 rms @ 8

Hi Side
B&c DE70-8y & De750tn 
110 watts RMS/220 watts program

I've bought xti 6002'S for my subs, but i just can't decide for the biamp tops.
I will be replacing the rcfs for
B&C 15NDL88
Power Handling (RMS)700 Watts
Power Handling (max)1,400 WattsImpedance8 ohms
Frequency Response45 to 3,000 Hz

But the bike nights start full force may 4th, i cant do this all. im only one guy and his bank after all.

for now i will sister my powered next to a stack. and ill be able to squeeze smoothly through the next few months.

I have to go to work, so this was typed fast. bare with me, im 24 running down a dream

thoughts, advice? e
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Patrick Cognitore

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2019, 11:47:37 am »

Have you reached out directly to Yorkville via phone or email? I'd start there. Even if the info isn't on the site they probably have original driver specs on file. If you can't get the originally loaded woofers for some reason you then at least have the detailed driver specs to match up a replacement.

Are you planning to replace the woofers in all the cabs, or just the empty box? Overall it would be better to have cabs with matching drivers so that processing (EQ, crossover, limiting) can be applied equally and appropriately to all the cabs.

I cant even find the e2104's on yorks legacy items.
 So, one of the 2104's is just the box with its hf and its mutilated crossover , it was chosen for to be parts for an un-known reason.
(sorry for the long post guys.)
I've deiced to bi-amp all of them. Unless I end up restoring them to original for nostalgic reason I don't see the point in sending them off to be fixed. (I can do basic stuff, not trouble shoot a 12x8 crossover.)

so the drivers
low/mid side
rcf- L15K80Y
500 rms @ 8

Hi Side
B&c DE70-8y & De750tn 
110 watts RMS/220 watts program

I've bought xti 6002'S for my subs, but i just can't decide for the biamp tops.
I will be replacing the rcfs for
B&C 15NDL88
Power Handling (RMS)700 Watts
Power Handling (max)1,400 WattsImpedance8 ohms
Frequency Response45 to 3,000 Hz

But the bike nights start full force may 4th, i cant do this all. im only one guy and his bank after all.

for now i will sister my powered next to a stack. and ill be able to squeeze smoothly through the next few months.

I have to go to work, so this was typed fast. bare with me, im 24 running down a dream

thoughts, advice? e
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 06:06:01 am »

Hello
I'm own a small Production herein Iowa and over the past years the shows have been getting bigger and bigger. So I've been running down the dream of going somewhere in this business and started putting some serious money (to me) in my gear.
I started with, Jbl sound factory set bought from a lazer tag/ arcade bar that closed down, mixed on a mg24fx.  Two years later I picked up a 32*SoundcraftGB4, two Yorkville ls801p's with the ef500p tops.
well, now im sitting with a X18, x32, two york ls1208's and four Second hand e2152's that came from the "Big Dog" of my state. (He has retired his york lines and moved onto RCF line array. fuck do they sound good!)
Anyways, the E2152s have some problems. two of the four are actually e2104's, but the boxes are exactly the same besides drivers, fly points, and two handles towards the bottom on each side. Im guessing it was just a update. I cant even find the e2104's on yorks legacy items.
 So, one of the 2104's is just the box with its hf and its mutilated crossover , it was chosen for to be parts for an un-known reason.
(sorry for the long post guys.)
I've deiced to bi-amp all of them. Unless I end up restoring them to original for nostalgic reason I don't see the point in sending them off to be fixed. (I can do basic stuff, not trouble shoot a 12x8 crossover.)

so the drivers
low/mid side
rcf- L15K80Y
500 rms @ 8

Hi Side
B&c DE70-8y & De750tn 
110 watts RMS/220 watts program

I've bought xti 6002'S for my subs, but i just can't decide for the biamp tops.
I will be replacing the rcfs for
B&C 15NDL88
Power Handling (RMS)700 Watts
Power Handling (max)1,400 WattsImpedance8 ohms
Frequency Response45 to 3,000 Hz

But the bike nights start full force may 4th, i cant do this all. im only one guy and his bank after all.

for now i will sister my powered next to a stack. and ill be able to squeeze smoothly through the next few months.

I have to go to work, so this was typed fast. bare with me, im 24 running down a dream

thoughts, advice? e

If I remember right the e2104 box is 2-15's and horn box. In most 2-15 boxes they are called quasi 3 way. The Horn goes down to the middle 15's crossover point and this 15 goes all the way down to the boxes low frequency limit. The bottom 15 roughly starts at , around , 200hz and goes down to the boxes low frequency limit. This helps with phase cancellation with the 2 - 15's going all the way up to the horns crossover point. Yes you can Bi-amp them. You'll get "Sound" out. But they aren't going to be as good as they should be. This kind of box is normally used without subs by their design. Yes you can put subs under them and use a 80hz crossover point but this takes a lot of use out of the bottom 15 so your carrying that big box around for not much gain. Your EF500p's will be close to the same output.....Maybe find / rent another pair of EF500p's and use the subs for this show? 

Your speaker is basically a Peavey SP4. They do have replacement crossover's available for them that have the quasi 2 way design. Not sure if they are exactly what you need but if your pressed for time and yorkville doesn't still stock the current needed ones these "might" get you by.

https://reverb.com/item/16589137-peavey-sp4-jackplate-speaker-two-way-crossover-30501582

A budget one if your using low wattage.

https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/186141-peavey-73900692-peavey-speaker-crossover-network

Mixing different speakers and not the correct crossover is hit or miss at best.  Again the above may get you through your show but in the end your going to have to spend more money than they may be worth it get marginal results.

Kindest regards;
Douglas R. Allen

Edit:   Some reading here.  http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=72084.0
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 06:33:05 am by Douglas R. Allen »
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Patrick Cognitore

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2019, 02:19:36 pm »

Are you sure that the Yorkville models above are actually a quasi 3 way? I worked for a Yorkville dealer for a number of years (admittedly a long while ago) and don't recall anything regarding that feature in Yorkville 2x15" cabs. None of the info on the Legacy section of the website mentions anything about that feature on any of the 2x15" cabs, either.

Doesn't mean they didn't implement it, but I wouldn't assume it without confirmation.

If I remember right the e2104 box is 2-15's and horn box. In most 2-15 boxes they are called quasi 3 way. The Horn goes down to the middle 15's crossover point and this 15 goes all the way down to the boxes low frequency limit. The bottom 15 roughly starts at , around , 200hz and goes down to the boxes low frequency limit. This helps with phase cancellation with the 2 - 15's going all the way up to the horns crossover point.   http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=72084.0
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David Allred

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2019, 03:48:21 pm »

Are you sure that the Yorkville models above are actually a quasi 3 way? I worked for a Yorkville dealer for a number of years (admittedly a long while ago) and don't recall anything regarding that feature in Yorkville 2x15" cabs. None of the info on the Legacy section of the website mentions anything about that feature on any of the 2x15" cabs, either.

Doesn't mean they didn't implement it, but I wouldn't assume it without confirmation.

You should be able to look in the cab.  Separate from the x-over there might be a med to large coil mounted to the wall near the 15's going to only one 15.  If so, definitely quasi.  If not, just check the outputs leads from the x-over.
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2019, 04:53:29 pm »

Are you sure that the Yorkville models above are actually a quasi 3 way? I worked for a Yorkville dealer for a number of years (admittedly a long while ago) and don't recall anything regarding that feature in Yorkville 2x15" cabs. None of the info on the Legacy section of the website mentions anything about that feature on any of the 2x15" cabs, either.

Doesn't mean they didn't implement it, but I wouldn't assume it without confirmation.

The easy way to check is see if the 2 - 15's are wired in parallel. A single wire feeding one from the crossover then out that speaker down to the next one. ( If someone hasn't messed with it )  or there are 3 wires coming out of the crossover. 1 for each driver.

Yorkville is very good with support. I'd just give them a call.  If I didn't know for sure I'd wire it quasi 3 way. All the 2-15 and horns I've run across were. All the other variables come into play also. CD horn? Pad on the horn etc. 

Douglas R. Allen
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Mike Shriner.Jr

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 10:43:49 am »

If I remember right the e2104 box is 2-15's and horn box. In most 2-15 boxes they are called quasi 3 way. The Horn goes down to the middle 15's crossover point and this 15 goes all the way down to the boxes low frequency limit. The bottom 15 roughly starts at , around , 200hz and goes down to the boxes low frequency limit. This helps with phase cancellation with the 2 - 15's going all the way up to the horns crossover point. Yes you can Bi-amp them. You'll get "Sound" out. But they aren't going to be as good as they should be. This kind of box is normally used without subs by their design. Yes you can put subs under them and use a 80hz crossover point but this takes a lot of use out of the bottom 15 so your carrying that big box around for not much gain. Your EF500p's will be close to the same output.....Maybe find / rent another pair of EF500p's and use the subs for this show? 

Your speaker is basically a Peavey SP4. They do have replacement crossover's available for them that have the quasi 2 way design. Not sure if they are exactly what you need but if your pressed for time and yorkville doesn't still stock the current needed ones these "might" get you by.

https://reverb.com/item/16589137-peavey-sp4-jackplate-speaker-two-way-crossover-30501582

A budget one if your using low wattage.

https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/186141-peavey-73900692-peavey-speaker-crossover-network

Mixing different speakers and not the correct crossover is hit or miss at best.  Again the above may get you through your show but in the end your going to have to spend more money than they may be worth it get marginal results.

Kindest regards;
Douglas R. Allen

Edit:   Some reading here.  http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=72084.0

The LF are wired in parallel, so my thoughts are finding a 15 the has a reaches higher, so not the 3-way. Surprisingly, i find myself gently notching parts of the hi-end out. I expected to experience the typical 2x15 overpowering mids. but not so, small duck @200-250 cut them @ 63 (just testing in the parking lot) and these old fuckers are right along the srx I use when i sub for another company.

I've contacted Yorkville, waiting for the email now.
And im not exactly worried about the money now. Im still stretching my engineering legs, i came from the soundcraft gb4, with a behringer multigate, and lexicon mx200, to the x32 line.
I've figured out more of what Doesn't than what does, I could use presets. But im after the art just as much as im after the gig.

Curiosity Still gets the best of me at times as well.
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Mike Monte

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2019, 07:35:02 am »

Hello
I'm own a small Production herein Iowa and over the past years the shows have been getting bigger and bigger. So I've been running down the dream of going somewhere in this business and started putting some serious money (to me) in my gear.
I started with, Jbl sound factory set bought from a lazer tag/ arcade bar that closed down, mixed on a mg24fx.  Two years later I picked up a 32*SoundcraftGB4, two Yorkville ls801p's with the ef500p tops.
well, now im sitting with a X18, x32, two york ls1208's and four Second hand e2152's that came from the "Big Dog" of my state. (He has retired his york lines and moved onto RCF line array. fuck do they sound good!)
Anyways, the E2152s have some problems. two of the four are actually e2104's, but the boxes are exactly the same besides drivers, fly points, and two handles towards the bottom on each side. Im guessing it was just a update. I cant even find the e2104's on yorks legacy items.
 So, one of the 2104's is just the box with its hf and its mutilated crossover , it was chosen for to be parts for an un-known reason.
(sorry for the long post guys.)
I've deiced to bi-amp all of them. Unless I end up restoring them to original for nostalgic reason I don't see the point in sending them off to be fixed. (I can do basic stuff, not trouble shoot a 12x8 crossover.)

so the drivers
low/mid side
rcf- L15K80Y
500 rms @ 8

Hi Side
B&c DE70-8y & De750tn 
110 watts RMS/220 watts program

I've bought xti 6002'S for my subs, but i just can't decide for the biamp tops.
I will be replacing the rcfs for
B&C 15NDL88
Power Handling (RMS)700 Watts
Power Handling (max)1,400 WattsImpedance8 ohms
Frequency Response45 to 3,000 Hz

But the bike nights start full force may 4th, i cant do this all. im only one guy and his bank after all.

for now i will sister my powered next to a stack. and ill be able to squeeze smoothly through the next few months.

I have to go to work, so this was typed fast. bare with me, im 24 running down a dream

thoughts, advice? e

I have a bunch of passive Elite speakers in my inventory.  Excellent speakers.
Assuming that you are in the US, your best bet is to call Yorkville directly (Niagra Falls, NY) Phone (716) 297-2920 and tell them to connect you to "Guy" in Canada... (this way the international call will be on their nickle..)

It has been my experience that the young techs in Niagra Falls know nothing (or next to nothing) about the passive elites.  (Sorry Niagra Falls.)

It is my understanding that Guy is one of the people that developed the Elite/TX line...  I have spoken to him many times about crossovers, "real-world applications", whatever.  He is a wealth of knowledge.  He has been at Yorkville quite a while, so I hope that he hasn't retired...

Tell him Mike from MA says hi.




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Mike Monte

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2019, 08:50:08 am »

Hello
I'm own a small Production herein Iowa and over the past years the shows have been getting bigger and bigger. So I've been running down the dream of going somewhere in this business and started putting some serious money (to me) in my gear.
I started with, Jbl sound factory set bought from a lazer tag/ arcade bar that closed down, mixed on a mg24fx.  Two years later I picked up a 32*SoundcraftGB4, two Yorkville ls801p's with the ef500p tops.
well, now im sitting with a X18, x32, two york ls1208's and four Second hand e2152's that came from the "Big Dog" of my state. (He has retired his york lines and moved onto RCF line array. fuck do they sound good!)
Anyways, the E2152s have some problems. two of the four are actually e2104's, but the boxes are exactly the same besides drivers, fly points, and two handles towards the bottom on each side. Im guessing it was just a update. I cant even find the e2104's on yorks legacy items.
 So, one of the 2104's is just the box with its hf and its mutilated crossover , it was chosen for to be parts for an un-known reason.
(sorry for the long post guys.)
I've deiced to bi-amp all of them. Unless I end up restoring them to original for nostalgic reason I don't see the point in sending them off to be fixed. (I can do basic stuff, not trouble shoot a 12x8 crossover.)

so the drivers
low/mid side
rcf- L15K80Y
500 rms @ 8

Hi Side
B&c DE70-8y & De750tn 
110 watts RMS/220 watts program

I've bought xti 6002'S for my subs, but i just can't decide for the biamp tops.
I will be replacing the rcfs for
B&C 15NDL88
Power Handling (RMS)700 Watts
Power Handling (max)1,400 WattsImpedance8 ohms
Frequency Response45 to 3,000 Hz

But the bike nights start full force may 4th, i cant do this all. im only one guy and his bank after all.

for now i will sister my powered next to a stack. and ill be able to squeeze smoothly through the next few months.

I have to go to work, so this was typed fast. bare with me, im 24 running down a dream

thoughts, advice? e

I found a link to some possible info about the e2104:
https://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/LivePerformanceCategory/acapella-33/375353-
(Disregard if you have found this already..)
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 07:42:21 am »

^ Wow that link was me years ago... a blast from the past. We ended up using them for summer outdoor DJ events mostly - and with subs. They worked well for that application, and looked impressive because of their sheer size.

Once we started really pouring power through them the crossovers went fairly quickly. At that time Yorkville could fix them but it was expensive, so I bi-amped the cabs (which is what I would recommend Mike Shriner and which made them sound cleaner as well).

Also I wouldn't waste money on neo replacement drivers - just get ceramics. Those cabs are so heavy that the small savings in weight with neo is not going to help moving them.

Also be sure and brace them in the back if you're doing high energy events. They push over really easy if anyone happens to bump into them.
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Mike Shriner.Jr

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Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2019, 12:33:02 am »

^ Wow that link was me years ago... a blast from the past. We ended up using them for summer outdoor DJ events mostly - and with subs. They worked well for that application, and looked impressive because of their sheer size.

Once we started really pouring power through them the crossovers went fairly quickly. At that time Yorkville could fix them but it was expensive, so I bi-amped the cabs (which is what I would recommend Mike Shriner and which made them sound cleaner as well).

Also I wouldn't waste money on neo replacement drivers - just get ceramics. Those cabs are so heavy that the small savings in weight with neo is not going to help moving them.

Also be sure and brace them in the back if you're doing high energy events. They push over really easy if anyone happens to bump into them.
Sweet thank you so much man. Out of curiosity what power did you send to them? Im going to use their internal crossovers just to keep my nerves calm, and because i haven't pulled the trigger yet, for the next two shows. Then ill have about 3 weeks to get it done.

Buying a pair of ls1208's and a xti6002 kinda slowed me down financially, so did some cosmetic work on the boxes weathering the dry season.   
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwY580XA7r6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Biamp support.
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2019, 12:33:02 am »


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