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Author Topic: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?  (Read 2304 times)

Eric Snodgrass

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New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« on: April 01, 2019, 02:09:45 pm »

Are there any new arrayable trap boxes being made these days? 
I ask because I venue where I work frequently will be needing a system for an open-air outdoor space.  The space is one level, standing-room-only, and at least twice as wide as it is deep.  They don't need a really long throw (probably less than 120') as they don't want the sound significantly bleeding out into the street and park across the way.
Using smaller-format line-array cabinets has been discussed.  But the more I've been thinking about this the more I am convinced that arrayable, flyable point-source boxes might be the way to go.  They have the advantage of being full range already (unlike line-arrays where the low-end extension of the array is determined by the length of the array);  the horizontal spread can be determined and controlled by the number of boxes in each array (where the outside arrays can have a smaller number of boxes so as to keep some of the energy off of the adjacent buildings). 

I know that L'Acoustic has the ARCs.  Are there any other higher-end manufacturers making arrayable boxes? 
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Ricky John

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2019, 02:31:33 pm »

Are there any new arrayable trap boxes being made these days? 
I ask because I venue where I work frequently will be needing a system for an open-air outdoor space.  The space is one level, standing-room-only, and at least twice as wide as it is deep.  They don't need a really long throw (probably less than 120') as they don't want the sound significantly bleeding out into the street and park across the way.
Using smaller-format line-array cabinets has been discussed.  But the more I've been thinking about this the more I am convinced that arrayable, flyable point-source boxes might be the way to go.  They have the advantage of being full range already (unlike line-arrays where the low-end extension of the array is determined by the length of the array);  the horizontal spread can be determined and controlled by the number of boxes in each array (where the outside arrays can have a smaller number of boxes so as to keep some of the energy off of the adjacent buildings). 

I know that L'Acoustic has the ARCs.  Are there any other higher-end manufacturers making arrayable boxes?


Did you look at Danley Sound Labs?
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Paul Miller

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2019, 02:34:59 pm »

Not sure how "new" they are, but the Danley SH46 are arrayable trap boxes. At 40H x 60V, they are meant to be tight packed in arrays of either 2 or 3.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 02:39:10 pm »

They have the advantage of being full range already (unlike line-arrays where the low-end extension of the array is determined by the length of the array); ...

The LF extension of line arrays is not determined by the length of the line.  The directivity changes, as it also does when arraying trap boxes.  With an arrayable trap box you will transition from the horn controlled frequencies to the range that is no longer controlled based upon the size of the horn(s).  Even if there is a horn loaded bass section you would require a very large horn.  Take a look at the Danley Jericho and you will get an idea of the size required for horn control of LF.
With a line array you will transition based on the length of the array. 

There are quite a few options out there.  Have you modeled the venue with any systems yet?

Is this system going to be permanently installed?
I ask because their are more limited options once there is a requirement for IP rated speakers.

Lee
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 02:41:08 pm »

These are pretty new...http://yorkville.com/synergy/
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 03:07:30 pm »

The LF extension of line arrays is not determined by the length of the line.  The directivity changes, as it also does when arraying trap boxes.  With an arrayable trap box you will transition from the horn controlled frequencies to the range that is no longer controlled based upon the size of the horn(s).  Even if there is a horn loaded bass section you would require a very large horn.  Take a look at the Danley Jericho and you will get an idea of the size required for horn control of LF.
With a line array you will transition based on the length of the array. 

There are quite a few options out there.  Have you modeled the venue with any systems yet?

Is this system going to be permanently installed?
I ask because their are more limited options once there is a requirement for IP rated speakers.

Lee

Thanks for the clarification, Lee.
The system will not be permanently installed.  It will be most likely flown by crank-up lift towers on a per-event basis. 
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 03:09:02 pm »

These are pretty new...http://yorkville.com/synergy/

Thanks for the link and the reminder, Mark.  I had forgotten about these, even though I had read the forum thread about them when they were introduced.  They might really fit the bill. 
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Jeffrey Knorr - CobraSound.com

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2019, 03:14:11 pm »

Are there any new arrayable trap boxes being made these days? 
I ask because I venue where I work frequently will be needing a system for an open-air outdoor space.  The space is one level, standing-room-only, and at least twice as wide as it is deep.  They don't need a really long throw (probably less than 120') as they don't want the sound significantly bleeding out into the street and park across the way.
Using smaller-format line-array cabinets has been discussed.  But the more I've been thinking about this the more I am convinced that arrayable, flyable point-source boxes might be the way to go.  They have the advantage of being full range already (unlike line-arrays where the low-end extension of the array is determined by the length of the array);  the horizontal spread can be determined and controlled by the number of boxes in each array (where the outside arrays can have a smaller number of boxes so as to keep some of the energy off of the adjacent buildings). 

I know that L'Acoustic has the ARCs.  Are there any other higher-end manufacturers making arrayable boxes?

If these are for install, I'd consider:
Danley Sound Labs SH or J series
Fulcrum Acoustic AH series
EAW QX series
JBL PD series

Horns are alive and well! :)

Jeff
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Taylor Hall

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2019, 03:25:35 pm »

Meyer UPQ is another option
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2019, 03:28:52 pm »

Sorry I didn't make it clear in my original post.  This will not be a permanent install.  These will be used and flown on a per-event basis.  Portability and ease of rigging will be considerations. 
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Steve Ferreira

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2019, 04:01:20 pm »



I know that L'Acoustic has the ARCs.  Are there any other higher-end manufacturers making arrayable boxes?

Meyer JM1Ps
RCF TTL6 might work as well for this application.

Lower end of things JBL SRX 835p?
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Doug Fowler

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2019, 04:04:46 pm »

Sorry I didn't make it clear in my original post.  This will not be a permanent install.  These will be used and flown on a per-event basis.  Portability and ease of rigging will be considerations.

SH-46 is very good.  Passive, plug and play, no DSP required for the most part.  Easy to rig with the right flybar, no chains, straps or guessing. Just tight pack and go.

Used:

X-Array
KF750 with focused processing
NEXO Alpha
db audiotechnik C4/C7
Turbosound
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Don T. Williams

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2019, 05:53:51 pm »

The trap boxes that array well together should provide good service, but with flying hardware and the weight of some most of those boxes, be extremely careful about flying these anywhere that people will be under them.  250 lbs.+ of speaker and lift falling on people can be fatal.  There are line array lifts that have a large V" truss type base from several truss manufacturers that look fairly safe, but they are not cheap.  Safety comes at a price, but being unsafe is really expensive!
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2019, 06:17:18 pm »

Just to ask the question since it hasnít come up yet, how much space are you trying to fill.  What SPLs are you trying to achieve, and whatís the budget?

The Danley J3 sounds great and is a one-box wonder, although rather large and heavy.  As already mentioned, at a smaller level the RCF TTL6a can do a neat trick of arraying 2 boxes vertically.  The Yorkville Synergy system looks interesting (I have yet to hear it), but it seems to be painfully expensive and limited for what it is and how it must be used.  Hope this helps!
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Mac Kerr

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2019, 06:27:26 pm »

These are pretty new...http://yorkville.com/synergy/

Looks like someone reinvented the MSL-10.  ;)

Mac

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Karel Noon

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2019, 11:41:34 pm »

http://www.axiomproaudio.com/

Check out that brand, high quality components, and a nice array able trap box the AX1012 that they launched some weeks ago.
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Peter Morris

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2019, 12:20:17 am »

Looks like someone reinvented the MSL-10.  ;)

Mac

Yeah, it does look like that  ;)... except to top synergy horn on the Yorkville can go down to 55Hz, then there is the tripple 15" sub enclosure mounted below it which is normally crossed at 100Hz to the horn on top.
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Peter Morris

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2019, 12:27:52 am »


.... I know that L'Acoustic has the ARCs.  Are there any other higher-end manufacturers making arrayable boxes?

RCF TTP 5-A - POINT SOURCE ARRAY
https://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/product-detail/ttp-5-a/234688

Meyer Sound JM-1P : Arrayable Loudspeaker
https://meyersound.com/product/jm-1p/
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Uwe Riemer2

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Andrea Litti

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2019, 07:26:50 am »

Rcf has the TTP5, a 15"+2" (4" vc) powered arrayable speaker, externally similar to LA's Arcs or some Meyer model I don't recall (the above mentioned Upq maybe?). There's also a forthcoming model called TTP4 with double 10" woofers and a 4" vc driver

EDIT: didn't see the above posts probably cause I was typing at the same time, sorry!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 07:29:19 am by Andrea Litti »
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Mark Rombouts

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2019, 08:14:46 am »

L-Acoustics introduced some new ARCS models today. A15 and A10 in two coverage versions.
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Weogo Reed

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2019, 10:23:05 am »

Hi Eric,

"Are there any new arrayable trap boxes being made these days?" 

Be aware of interference between boxes, frequency dependent.
I suggest modeling arrays of any boxes you're looking at, and
also consider exploded arrays.

 https://www.prosoundweb.com/topics/sound_reinforcement/loudspeaker_arrays_ideas_data_solutions_in_solving_horizontal_coverag_probl/2/
 
For the space you describe I would be looking at something like a Danley SH69 on each side of the stage, in landscape orientation, with SM60Fs for side-fills.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2019, 11:52:42 am »

Some great suggestions so far.  They all look quite interesting. 
My concern about the Danley products is the flyware.  Looking at their website, the flyware appears to be made more for installs.  The other offerings from L'Acoustics, RCF, Meyer, and Yorkville have flyware/rigging that seem geared much more towards easy setup/teardown, which is definitely part of the consideration. 
Anyone here have any experience with the Danley flyware?  How quick is setup/teardown?  There would always be a crew for this, FYI. 
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Weogo Reed

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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2019, 12:17:36 pm »

Hi Eric,

"Anyone here have any experience with the Danley flyware?  How quick is setup/teardown?"

The SH69 has a fly-yoke, attaches with one bolt on each side of the box.
Turn the yoke upside down, bolt on a pole cup and you can put the speaker up on any medium-duty speaker stand.
The weight is centered on the yoke, so tilting as needed is easy.

The Global Truss  DT-3800 looks like it could be a good match.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
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Re: New Arrayable Trap Boxes?
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