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Author Topic: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model  (Read 1250 times)

Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 10:48:24 am »

Step up the the EW300 series.
You get 32 pre-set bands plus the ability to monitor your rig through WSM, Sennheiser's free software.
All ew g3 and g4 devices are compatible.
I don't think the trade-in program is still going, but you could sell your old units overseas via e-bay.

Will that allow you to use the receivers as scanners for the WSM software?
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 12:31:13 pm »

Will that allow you to use the receivers as scanners for the WSM software?

I believe so.
I don't think the 100 series lets you do that.
The events I do are small enough that I use the internal scanning to choose a bank.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 12:34:39 pm by Dave Garoutte »
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2019, 10:05:06 am »

Unless I'm really missing something here, the only difference between Evo 100 and 300 is features.  All the RF performance and intermod characteristics should be identical (Wireless Workbench has all the same numbers) and therefore I wouldn't expect to be able to fit in more 300 than 100.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 10:19:21 am »

If the manufacturer says that you can use a maximum of 20 units together, TRUST THEM. Yeah, you may be able to get more to work sometimes, but it's going to be never ending frustrations for you.

Your spec is 24 wireless units that need to work together.  Start your product search with that spec on the table. Eliminate any products that don't spect that by the manufacturer and proceed.
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Brian Jojade

boburtz

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2019, 12:07:57 pm »

If the manufacturer says that you can use a maximum of 20 units together, TRUST THEM. Yeah, you may be able to get more to work sometimes, but it's going to be never ending frustrations for you.
Our G3 300 series boast up to 32 simultaneous channels. The G4 500 series has the same spec. The G4 100 series just states "up to 20 compatible channels". I believe that is a limitation based on its preset bank / channel system. I'm sure you could get the same amount of 100 series as 500 series playing nicely together, it just wouldn't be a simple process of scanning on the unit, and pressing "go". One would have to use WSM (or other frequency management software) and manually plug in all of the info to get a frequency list, then manually plug the frequencies into the units.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2019, 12:54:51 pm »

From Senny website:

G4 EW100
42 mhz bandwidth / 1680 addressable frequencies
20 banks of 12 channel presets
30mw max output for transmitters
Can be linked for auto presetting

G4 EW300
88 mhz bandwidth / 3520 addressable frequencies
20 banks of 32 channel presets
50mw max output for transmitters
Can be networked to work with monitoring software
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Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

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Christian Ekren

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2019, 09:00:44 pm »

It is possible, assuming your local RF climate isn't giving you issues.

I came in to a system of 55 channels of Sennheiser EW100 G2/G3 last season spread across A1 (x16), A (x28), and G (x11) bands. One of the "sneaky" differences Sennheiser doesn't tell you about between the 100 and 500 series is that the frontend filter on the 100's is not as good (the reason the 500's list the ability to run more units.)

We ended up getting a PWS Bandpass filter (to lower the noisefloor and help with the TMobile 600MHz turn-on) along with 2x 200' runs of Belden 9913 RG-8X cable connected to Sennheiser A5000CP antennas. RF distribution handled by "master' ASA3000's feeding ASA1's and ASP2's feeding receivers.

This was for a 2,500 seat outdoor amphitheater with the receivers located in an enclosed brick-building offstage and antennas overstage pointing down. Ended up coordinating through Shure's WWB using "More Frequencies" compatibility with scans taken from an RF Explorer and Vantage. 6 actors wore backup rigs (one A1 and another G band.) Didn't have any RF issues throughout the season due to intermod, even in scenes with many actors getting physically close to one another.

Just my $0.02.
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2019, 12:37:14 am »

I came in to a system of 55 channels of Sennheiser EW100 G2/G3 last season spread across A1 (x16), A (x28), and G (x11) bands.
Thanks Christian.  Good to know.  I think my plan of running 24 will work just fine.

 
One of the "sneaky" differences Sennheiser doesn't tell you about between the 100 and 500 series is that the frontend filter on the 100's is not as good (the reason the 500's list the ability to run more units.)
I learned this fact about Shure wireless receivers too while attending a Shure Master Class for their wireless.  They said that the consumer isn't paying for the transmitter, they are paying for the front end filter in the receiver, so that the more expensive the unit the more units one can run together without IMD chances increasing.
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hugovanmeijeren

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2019, 10:42:43 am »

One of the "sneaky" differences Sennheiser doesn't tell you about between the 100 and 500 series is that the frontend filter on the 100's is not as good (the reason the 500's list the ability to run more units.)

Well actually, it is mentioned in the user manual of the EM100 and EM500 respectively:

Quote from: Sennheiser EM100 G3/G4
Adjacent channel rejection: typ. ≥ 65dB
Intermodulation attenuation: typ. ≥ 65dB
Blocking ≥ 70dB

Quote from: Sennheiser EM500 G3/EM300-500 G4
Adjacent channel rejection: typ. ≥ 75dB
Intermodulation attenuation: typ. ≥ 70dB
Blocking ≥ 75dB

However, from personal experience I can tell that running 24 EW100 units in the same band (given that there are no other sources of interference within that band) is perfectly possible. If you can spread the number of units over different frequency bands, than it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to get 24 units to work together.
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Hugo van Meijeren

Brian Hancock

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Re: Exceeding Manufacturer Recommended Wireless Units for Make/Model
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2019, 09:04:02 pm »

A few others have said similar but I've found it always to hold true ... you get what you pay for with wireless, I've read a few times "I think" and probably "ok" or "good enough" and that's all good and fine in a best case scenario which maybe the case right now but 12 to 18 months from now it may not be the case be a good steward of the schools money recomend the fullest spec, most flexiable, best laid out system, include. band pass filters remote antennas, I'd look into rf venues pads, zone combiner, etc. It may hurt a little more now but if their system doesnt work because of a new cell tower, other wireless in the area it will be much more painful to buy again in a few years or even expand ... wireless just isnt going to be what it's been moving forward and it's going to be a harsh reality for a lot of places.
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