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[Tim McCulloch]

DOG PILE!

Steve, TJ and David are spot on...  These are *systems* and that includes the power amps/processing.  If you insist on Lab Gruppen amps buy the i3 and amps from Clair (so you'll get the needed i3 processing).  If you think the 4888 will have better client acceptance, buy the ITech HD amps and be done with it.

I've heard the alleged transfer function "matching" for VerTec done with other amplifiers and processing and no, it's not the same.  One was close (and proprietary) and the other wasn't.

So is this a hobby or business?  Buy what your clients have expressed an interest in paying money for.  Take you profits and buy whatever you want to listen to in the shop or at home.

[Riley Casey]

Just to run counter to the party line on this I’ve been running Vertec 4888s with Lab Gruppens and BSS366 v4 processing for years and have always found that combo to sound better than the stock itech Harmon solution. This is based on A:B ing against cross rented 4888s running both v4 and V5 processing over the years and Drive pack cabinets as well.  No idea what they would sound like with the Lake proccessing in the current Labs but JBL did provide v4 settings for Lakes so there is a starting place should you choose that path.   If your rig sounds good and you have a good reputation with your customers ( the bands are rarely your customers at that mid level, the promoters are ) then that kind of Brown M&Ms level of rider detail isn’t what gets you the gig.

All that being said buy what you can rent more of and easily integrate into your set up. If you routinely do gigs with six boxes a side but a few times a year you need twelve a side to keep your best customer from going to the competition then the right answer is what ever those extra boxes and amps are likely to be.

[Jim McKeveny]

Just to run counter to the party line on this I’ve been running Vertec 4888s with Lab Gruppens and BSS366 v4 processing for years and have always found that combo to sound better than the stock itech Harmon solution.

Ditto. My preferred vendor in LI/NY area has significant number of 4888s/Lab/Lake systems, and they always Sound Good Fast. The proprietor has A/B'd the Crown offering more than once and does not recognize any real world improvement.

A proven rig with a wise SE beats all.

[Tim McCulloch]

Just to run counter to the party line on this I’ve been running Vertec 4888s with Lab Gruppens and BSS366 v4 processing for years and have always found that combo to sound better than the stock itech Harmon solution. This is based on A:B ing against cross rented 4888s running both v4 and V5 processing over the years and Drive pack cabinets as well.  No idea what they would sound like with the Lake proccessing in the current Labs but JBL did provide v4 settings for Lakes so there is a starting place should you choose that path.   If your rig sounds good and you have a good reputation with your customers ( the bands are rarely your customers at that mid level, the promoters are ) then that kind of Brown M&Ms level of rider detail isn’t what gets you the gig.

All that being said buy what you can rent more of and easily integrate into your set up. If you routinely do gigs with six boxes a side but a few times a year you need twelve a side to keep your best customer from going to the competition then the right answer is what ever those extra boxes and amps are likely to be.

The V4 and earlier processing was pretty easy to emulate - on that we will agree.

Being very familiar with how V5 sounds (especially off-axis) I have yet to hear any publicly available emulation that sounds the same and I'm very suspicious of any such claims.

A big part of what made VerTec a poor contender for the the first 15 years of its life was open processing and system owners/engineers fiddling with it, back when l'Acoustic was kicking ass and selling Vdosc because their rigs sounded consistent.

[John L Nobile]

A big part of what made VerTec a poor contender for the the first 15 years of its life was open processing and system owners/engineers fiddling with it,

That explains why I haven't heard a VerTec system I've liked. Everyone seems to know more about the setup than the manufacturers.

[David Sturzenbecher]

That explains why I haven't heard a VerTec system I've liked. Everyone seems to know more about the setup than the manufacturers.

There is a reason why the first question every BE asks is....Vertec Huh?  Are you running V5?   

[Tim McCulloch]

That explains why I haven't heard a VerTec system I've liked. Everyone seems to know more about the setup than the manufacturers.

The other reason is use of the Wishful Thinking Mode when using the JBL Line Array Calculator.  That's where the system designer wishes he had more inventory or weight capacity to make the prediction pic prettier in more than 1 frequency band.

[Riley Casey]

Another " this forum needs a like button" moment

 

The other reason is use of the Wishful Thinking Mode when using the JBL Line Array Calculator.  That's where the system designer wishes he had more inventory or weight capacity to make the prediction pic prettier in more than 1 frequency band.

[Steve Litcher]

I auditioned the i3 rig with PLM amplification while at Clair Global in November. I was really impressed by the sound quality and consistent/even coverage. The pricing on their boxes is tough to beat, and there's no one that can touch the pricing on their PLM20k amps. They're used... but they're well maintained and you'll have full support from Clair should you need it.

Tom A is an awesome guy over at Clair Global. We sat down and planned out/defined my immediate needs, followed by my 3 and 5-year goals. He assured me that if I needed 12 boxes at first with an end goal of 32 boxes, that it would be no issue, and they'd make certain I was covered.

The best bet may be to take a few trips... go listen to the gear and then make a decision. I'll also add that in terms of rider acceptance - I was worried about selecting Clair, but learned that (at least around here) the name doesn't matter too much, so long as it's a positively-viewed large scale manufacturer. After talking with dozens of people and mentioning we were looking into Clair, Adamson, and d&b, everyone said, "Yeah, any of those will be great."

[Matthew Knischewsky]

Hello gentleman
Were looking at getting a little array setup and locally we can get some 4888 but we thought Clair i3 may be also up our alley..
The cost difference is also a factor for us Canadians vs US DOLLAR. .unfortunately.
Any help or real world experience would be greatfull.
We will be looking at 6-8 boxes per side over time when were done building our system.
Thanks
John

88's are a great box but they're long in the tooth now but still accepted. You'd want to be able to make your investment back in short order. 6-8 can be a good number per side depending on the type of shows you're doing.

As most are suggesting, go with the Crown HDs for amplification. Not only just for V5 processing but for Performance Manager and the ability to control every amplifier on the network. The Line Array Calculator is quite good and you have the ability to apply EQ/shading to individual circuits during the prediction. It's a powerful software package.

While it's not the rig you're looking at, there's a turnkey 89, 87A, 80, and V Rack system available in Kitchener. It's on Kijiji. Not mine, but I did tech it often at one time and it is very well kept.

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