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[Mike Monte]

I have been providing the sound production / (plus hiring the DJ) for an annual ACS Relay for Life for the past 12 years.
The local event organizers (activities committee, etc.) have become firends over the years and they look forward to having us do the production.

Recently the regional ACS rep reached out to me for my "Job Proposal", which I remitted.  After she received the proposal she asked if we could discount our fee as the ACS is a "non-profit".  (They ask every year, btw..)

A note:  Upon the conclusion of last year's event, the local organizer asked me to add additional gear (speakers, & such) for this year's event.
My bid this year reflected her request. (The Job Proposal includes an itemized list of the major components including the extra gear for this year's event.)

The regional ACS rep's response: "The ACS insurance policy covers and vendors/DJs etc. and your equipment – so the $*** liability insurance charge is not applicable. We would not request an insurance binder at any time as stated in the contract."

I don't sound-gig without liability insurance.
I know that "non-profits" will try to cut corners......
but
I can't believe she expects me to tech the event without personal coverage.

This sounds w-a-y shady to me.......... 

FYI: The local ACS team leader (she manages all of the relay teams) is a personal friend of mine.

I could copy her in on this matter but would rather not "muddy the water" as of yet.

I feel that I should just submit last year's Job Proposal with last year's gear (none of the additional gear) and keep my insurance costs in.

I know if I called my friend, the "the local organizer" she would not be happy with the ACS rep..

Your thoughts??
 

 



 

[John durisko]

I have been providing the sound production / (plus hiring the DJ) for an annual ACS Relay for Life for the past 12 years.
The local event organizers (activities committee, etc.) have become firends over the years and they look forward to having us do the production.

Recently the regional ACS rep reached out to me for my "Job Proposal", which I remitted.  After she received the proposal she asked if we could discount our fee as the ACS is a "non-profit".  (They ask every year, btw..)

A note:  Upon the conclusion of last year's event, the local organizer asked me to add additional gear (speakers, & such) for this year's event.
My bid this year reflected her request. (The Job Proposal includes an itemized list of the major components including the extra gear for this year's event.)

The regional ACS rep's response: "The ACS insurance policy covers and vendors/DJs etc. and your equipment – so the $*** liability insurance charge is not applicable. We would not request an insurance binder at any time as stated in the contract."

I don't sound-gig without liability insurance.
I know that "non-profits" will try to cut corners......
but
I can't believe she expects me to tech the event without personal coverage.

This sounds w-a-y shady to me.......... 

FYI: The local ACS team leader (she manages all of the relay teams) is a personal friend of mine.

I could copy her in on this matter but would rather not "muddy the water" as of yet.

I feel that I should just submit last year's Job Proposal with last year's gear (none of the additional gear) and keep my insurance costs in.

I know if I called my friend, the "the local organizer" she would not be happy with the ACS rep..

Your thoughts??
 

 

It sounds like you are in a position where I would start CC’ing your friend.
We used to provide the systems but not DJ’s for relays in our area. Setup and make sure everything is running and have them sign off and come back for load out. We received a very unbecoming phone call from one of the organizers on staff. This person left a voicemail cussing us out about an hour after we left the site about something not working. (This was now about 15 years ago so details are fuzzy) when we arrived back on site they had screwed something up. Unplugged a mic or something simple. We recorded the message and played it back on the next event. The directors were not happy with us or the individual but the events became too much of a pita to continue with so no loss on our part.

[Bob Stone]

Have you not responded to the ACS rep to say "I do not work without my own insurance policy in place, this is standard practice and non-negotiable."

Would seem to me this is just in the process of negotiation, they're trying to save money, you have certain costs and requirements to do the job. If you can't come to a reasonable agreement, then wish them the best of luck.

[scottstephens]

Mike,

   I can't believe any organization would ask you not to have coverage. All insurance companies want to have other companies accept more of the liability. If she is looking to cut corners, this is not the place. Tell her to scale back her requirements.   Keep your coverage!
 
   Another thought. Is the person asking this young and inexperienced? Because I can believe someone who wouldn't know any better asking this.


Scott

[Tim McCulloch]

The ACS is one of the best funded charities in the USA. While I have a fairly generous spirit the ACS can and should pay full invoice price... Or they can organize a fundraiser for the providers they low-ball.

[Art Welter]

I have been providing the sound production / (plus hiring the DJ) for an annual ACS Relay for Life for the past 12 years.

I don't sound-gig without liability insurance.

I feel that I should just submit last year's Job Proposal with last year's gear (none of the additional gear) and keep my insurance costs in.

I know if I called my friend, the "the local organizer" she would not be happy with the ACS rep..

Your thoughts??

My thoughts are liability insurance is a cost of doing business that I have never have considered including as a line item.

Including your liability insurance costs in a bid seems like including your utility bill for the shop, unless you are purchasing separate liability for each and every event, in which case- why would you do that, rather than carrying coverage year round?
And if you do that, you could simply require the buyer to provide proof of the paid[/i] ACS insurance policy that covers and vendors/DJs etc. and your equipment [/i] per your contractual agreement prior to signing.

Art

[Bob Faulkner]

Maybe you have already considered this, but make sure you are communicating with an actual ACS employee and not one of their volunteers.  In my experience with them, the ACS would place volunteers in these types of positions as an opportunity for them  (the volunteers) to gain experience.  And... many times, the volunteers were unaware of the business side of things when trying to recruit other volunteers and "free" services.

The ACS is one of the best funded charities in the USA. While I have a fairly generous spirit the ACS can and should pay full invoice price... Or they can organize a fundraiser for the providers they low-ball.

This is exactly right.  My experiences with them yielded a tedious and exhausting process of them wanting more and more... for $0.00    Sometimes, they would employ "guilt trips" to get more services, from me and other service entities.  I ceased my relationship with them.

[Steve Eudaly]

My thoughts are liability insurance is a cost of doing business that I have never have considered including as a line item.

Agreed. I think all of our clients would call me out if I attempted to do this. Yes, they are "paying" for it regardless if it is a line item or factored in to the rental/service charges, but to charge them for it directly seems odd. Lots of providers in our area don't itemize anything and wrap everything into one number--audio, lighting, video, trucking, labor, lodging, perdiem, etc., presumably so they aren't confronted with such questions. We break things out substantially more than that in order to show clients why certain aspects of a gig cost what they do, I can't imagine having line items to cover my basic operating expenses like insurance.

[Ray Aberle]

One of my bridges with the ACS/Relay for Life was burned a couple of years ago.

Organizer requests a quote for a generator (nothing big, mind you, just an EU3000si).
I provided a quote. "Let me know if you want to confirm this!"
I hear nothing. No paperwork/contract details are received from them. (Which they're super big on having everything dialed down, a PO issued, etc.)
The morning of their event, I'm at another Relay. I was talking to the staff partner (ACS employee) there and mentioned this other event hadn't said anything since the quote two months previously. She confirmed that there wasn't going to be a rental since there was no paperwork.
Not FIVE MINUTES after we have this conversation, my cell phone rings. "Hi, it's such-and-such from the (location) Relay. Ummm, where's our generator?" Me: "What generator? you never placed the order."

I got back to the office and found the check for payment in full in the mail. Soooooo. You wanted to move forward, but instead of saying anything to us about it, you just did the paperwork on the back end? Now, had we received the check before the event, no problem, it's clearly confirmed, and we would have been there.

The following week, that staff partner called us up and complained about the situation, and wanted the check back so we wouldn't cash it. Now, we're not unprofessionals. I'm not going to cash a check for a show we didn't do. But she was happy to place the blame on me for their screwup. I helpfully told her that for future events, just make sure everything's taken care of in advance. "To be honest, there's not going to be a next time" was her response.

We've not done any Relays for the last two years and the weekends that we had them on have all been filled with other (and yes, bigger/better paying...) shows. We're not a DJ service, so we don't get the "Benefit" that a DJ service would from the "Exposure" at their events, which is why I always told the staff partners "this is why you're paying for the service. Not rack rate, but you're still paying. This way, we don't preface every announcement with a plug for a DJ service."

Back to the initial question... like Steven said. I don't line-item back end costs of doing business. Insurance, rent, warehouse supplies, office staff (like I have any...) -- those expenses are all built into our gear rental pricing. By not line-iteming those expenses, you don't get an event organizer looking them over and trying to see where they can "cut costs."  Gear Rental and Event Labor are separated- and we'll discount gear rentals where needed/desired, but never event labor.

With the ACS saying you're fully covered, you'll quickly find in the verbiage that they have exclusions for just about everything, holding them just about fault-less. In fact, I am surprised that they would be asking you to not insure yourself-- most Relays demanded that *I* provide *THEM* a COI naming them as an additionally-insured for every event.

-Ray

[Jeff Lelko]

In fact, I am surprised that they would be asking you to not insure yourself-- most Relays demanded that *I* provide *THEM* a COI naming them as an additionally-insured for every event.

I agree.  The ACS events that I've done sound for in my region require this and usually specify minimum amounts and types of coverage, and of course the COI.  I'd be very hesitant to work with a client specifically telling me not to worry about insurance coverage, especially for a quasi-public event.  Sorry to hear about your situation though Ray!

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