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[Benjamin Krumholz]

Some New Laws that are being proposed in Maryland..

Maryland Electricians Act. https://avixa.azureedge.net/portal/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2019-md-house-bill-792.pdf

Electricians - Low-Voltage Electricians, Continuing Education, and Penalties.
https://avixa.azureedge.net/portal/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2019-md-house-bill-905.pdf

Interested to hear some thoughts from the crowd.. Basically it sounds like I have to be or hire a Master Electrician or Electrician Journeyman if i want to do ANYTHING that involves A/V Systems, high or low voltage, temporary or installed..

[Corey Scogin]

Some New Laws that are being proposed in Maryland..

Maryland Electricians Act. https://avixa.azureedge.net/portal/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2019-md-house-bill-792.pdf

Electricians - Low-Voltage Electricians, Continuing Education, and Penalties.
https://avixa.azureedge.net/portal/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2019-md-house-bill-905.pdf

Interested to hear some thoughts from the crowd.. Basically it sounds like I have to be or hire a Master Electrician or Electrician Journeyman if i want to do ANYTHING that involves A/V Systems, high or low voltage, temporary or installed..

Having read only your description (because trying to interpret legalese takes to long), it sounds like typical special-interest legislation or cronyism with a splash of nanny-state. I'm not sure what the existing laws were though. I bet they were already headed that way.

[Len Zenith Jr]

Interested to hear some thoughts from the crowd.. Basically it sounds like I have to be or hire a Master Electrician or Electrician Journeyman if i want to do ANYTHING that involves A/V Systems, high or low voltage, temporary or installed..

From one of the links you provided:

(2) "Provide electrical services" includes installing, repairing, or altering any electrical wiring, fixture, appliance,
apparatus, raceway, or conduit that:
(i) generates, transmits, transforms, or uses electrical energy in any form for light, heat, power, or communication; and
(ii) is located within a plant, substation, or elsewhere.

Seems to me like they are trying to regulate installations, not temp setups. There is a lot of shady installs out there, I think they are trying to clean that up.

[Tim Hite]

In California they already have a C-7 low-voltage contractor license requirement for this sort of thing. It's to ensure that consumers are protected from shoddy and dangerous workmanship, and the license also gives the contractors recourse against shady clients.

[Benjamin Krumholz]

(2) "Provide electrical services" includes installing, repairing, or altering any electrical wiring, fixture, appliance,
apparatus, raceway, or conduit that:
(i) generates, transmits, transforms, or uses electrical energy in any form for light, heat, power, or communication; and
(ii) is located within a plant, substation, or elsewhere.
Seems to me like they are trying to regulate installations, not temp setups. There is a lot of shady installs out there, I think they are trying to clean that up.

These are more the words i am concerned about and this is new text to the act.. Do you do any of these things?! Well you better be a Master electrician or a Journeyman Electrician


(K) "PROVIDING LIMITED ENERGY SERVICES" MEANS TO DESIGN, INSTALL, ERECT, REPAIR, MAINTAIN, OR
ALTER ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
(1) CABLING AND EQUIPMENT FOR VOICE, AUDIO, AND DATA SIGNALS;
(2) CLASS TWO OR CLASS THREE CIRCUITS, AS DEFINED BY THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE, THAT ARE
REMOTE CONTROL, SIGNALING, OR POWER-LIMITED;
(3) FIRE ALARM SYSTEMS;
(4) OPTICAL FIBER CABLES;
(5) COMMUNICATION CIRCUITS;
(6) RACEWAYS;
(7) COMMUNITY ANTENNA TELEVISION OR RADIO DISTRIBUTION SYSTEMS;
( NETWORK-POWERED BROADBAND COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEMS;
(9) PREMISES-POWERED BROADBAND COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEMS;
(10) ALARM SYSTEMS;
(11) ACCESS CONTROL SYSTEMS;
(12) VIDEO SURVEILLANCE SYSTEMS;
(13) HOME AUTOMATION AND CONTROL SYSTEMS;
(14) AUDIO VISUAL SYSTEMS;
(15) COMPUTER AND COMMUNICATIONS NETWORKS;
(16) HEATING FURNACES AND ELECTRICALLY OPERATED AIR-CONDITIONING AND REFRIGERATION
EQUIPMENT THAT REQUIRES NOT MORE THAN 225 VOLTS OR 25 AMPERES OF ELECTRICAL CURRENT;
(17) DIGITAL OR ELECTRICAL SIGNAGE;
(18) RADIOS;
(19) TELEVISIONS;
(20) TELEVISION AND RADIO DISTRIBUTION SYSTEMS; AND
(21) MOTORS.
(j) (L) "State Board" means the State Board of Master Electricians.
(k) (M) "State license" means a license that is issued by the State Board to a master AN electrician.
6-102.
The policy of the State PURPOSE OF THIS TITLE is to regulate, throughout the State, those persons who provide
electrical services or engage in the business of providing ESTABLISH A LICENSING PROGRAM FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO
PROVIDE OR ASSIST IN PROVIDING electrical services, IN ORDER to safeguard the life, health, property, and public welfare of
the citizens of the State.

[Mark Hannah]

Seems to me like they are trying to regulate installations, not temp setups. There is a lot of shady installs out there, I think they are trying to clean that up.

My guess is this is in reaction to all the electrical issues over the last year or so at the MGM Casino near Nation Harbor.

[Matthew Knischewsky]

These are more the words i am concerned about and this is new text to the act.. Do you do any of these things?! Well you better be a Master electrician or a Journeyman Electrician


(K) "PROVIDING LIMITED ENERGY SERVICES" MEANS TO DESIGN, INSTALL, ERECT, REPAIR, MAINTAIN, OR
ALTER ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

<snip>

 IN ORDER to safeguard the life, health, property, and public welfare of
the citizens of the State.

One positive if this act is passed it's going to be a good time to get your journeyman's ticket...The gov't will find out quickly how few licensed electricians there are in your state to complete the many tasks they have just reallocated.

[Craig Hauber]

One positive if this act is passed it's going to be a good time to get your journeyman's ticket...

I'm 48, is that even possible at my age?
Just tossing-out my 32 years experience of successful happy-client audio knowledge and spending years doing something entirely different just to be able to then go back and do what I've always done?

[Stephen Swaffer]

My guess is this is in reaction to all the electrical issues over the last year or so at the MGM Casino near Nation Harbor.

This may be true, but -politics aside- if that is the case it is the wrong solution.  There were several code violations and inspection lapses cited as causes.  Adding more licensing and permitting requirements doesn't fix that.  Current code and proper inspections should have prevented the problem.

Licensing/permitting doesn't guarantee quality work-it does provide a paper trail for accountability. IF the paper trail is utilized.

[frank kayser]

Note: I'm not making this up - saw hundreds come through the mail sorting facility back then


Maryland, back in late 70s and early 80s, had a slogan they were pushing - like  "Virginia is for Lovers."
So someone quite cleverly created:


Maryland. Oh! What a state I'm in!


'nuff said.


BTW, will I still be allowed to run my own mic cables? Power cords?


As a Maryland resident,
frank

[frank kayser]

Let me get serious for a second...
Craig Hauber mentioned 48, and was concerned about not getting credit for his 32 years of AV install experience (would he be a Maryland resident, or work in Maryland). (no disrespect intended, Craig)


I have to have experience AND pass the exam, or an apprenticeship will allow me to skip the exam.


I've got a decade (or two) on your age - 10 years in live audio - been running cat5 since cat5 was first starting to be installed as a minimum standard, replacing coax ethernet) Apprenticeship? To whom?


I don't know why Maryland has it in for me -


The title of the second bill, and the first (run on) sentence of the bill stating intentions.
(all emphasis, mine)

A BILL ENTITLED
AN ACT concerning
Electricians - Low-Voltage Electricians, Continuing Education, and Penalties

"... consist of a certain course or training, and be administered by certain persons; requiring an applicant for a low-voltage electrician license to have been engaged or employed regularly in providing electrical services for at least a certain period of time; requiring a low-voltage electrician to take a certain examination, except under certain circumstances; requiring the State Board to grant a waiver to the examination requirement for certain applicants for a low-voltage electrician license who complete a certain apprenticeship program; providing that the State Board shall waive the examination requirement for a certain applicant for a low-voltage electrician license, under certain circumstances, if the applicant submits a license on or before a certain date; authorizing the State Board to waive the examination requirement for certain out-of-State low-voltage electricians;

Maryland: Oh! What a state I'm in!
(anyone looking for a reliable, knowledgable employee in the mountain states?  I'm gonna need a new home soon.)

[Frank DeWitt]

got a problem?  Call the goverment.  No one can fix things like the goverment can.   The only good news I can see is the State isn't to big, so you don't need to move to far away to get work.

Me. I am stuck in New York State and working on my list of states that I could move to.   

NY is number one in people leaving.

[Jerome Malsack]

You have not looked at Illinois 

[Jonathan Johnson]

BTW, will I still be allowed to run my own mic cables? Power cords?

Several years ago at a local port facility, there was a big dispute over which union got to connect (cord and plug) reefer shipping containers to shore power: the longshoremen (ILWU) or the electricians (IBEW).

I think they eventually got it sorted out, but at the expense of losing some major shippers at the port due to work slowdowns.

So, I'll quote Ivan Beaver and say, “It depends.”

[Tim McCulloch]

Several years ago at a local port facility, there was a big dispute over which union got to connect (cord and plug) reefer shipping containers to shore power: the longshoremen (ILWU) or the electricians (IBEW).

I think they eventually got it sorted out, but at the expense of losing some major shippers at the port due to work slowdowns.

So, I'll quote Ivan Beaver and say, “It depends.”

Similar jurisdictional silliness at McCormick Place in Chicago - IATSE stagehand places the mic & stand, IBEW electrician runs the microphone cable and plugs it in.

When I have something there I double my usual labor estimate for hours and 3x for the price.  I'm usually not far off.

[Frank DeWitt]

You have not looked at Illinois

No,  never crossed my mind.  I just assumed Chicago spoils the whole state.

[Craig Hauber]

Let me get serious for a second...
Craig Hauber mentioned 48, and was concerned about not getting credit for his 32 years of AV install experience (would he be a Maryland resident, or work in Maryland). (no disrespect intended, Craig)

Sorry, I was being hypothetical as though I was living in that situation.
Although the way some state's laws end up being copied by others it could be an eventuality for all of us.

[Mark Cadwallader]

Sorry, I was being hypothetical as though I was living in that situation.
Although the way some state's laws end up being copied by others it could be an eventuality for all of us.

Not too likely here in Montana, Craig.  No telling about ND, however.

[Art Welter]

Similar jurisdictional silliness at McCormick Place in Chicago - IATSE stagehand places the mic & stand, IBEW electrician runs the microphone cable and plugs it in.

When I have something there I double my usual labor estimate for hours and 3x for the price.  I'm usually not far off.

Unions can be a good thing, but jurisdictional silliness can get ridiculous.
Makes me recall an old joke not too far off from some “alternate realities” experienced in my formative years, I’ll attribute it to some NYC IATSE brothers around 1978, as close as I recall it went like this:

Cold winter day, the stage door is opened promptly at the load in call time, but before the Teamsters begin unloading the truck, a 200 pound Great Dane walks onstage and drops a steaming pile.
The Steward calls for the Janitor to remove the shit, but he refuses- it’s “on the deck”, his union is not allowed to work there after stage call. The Stagehand department refuses involvement, as the pile also partly resides on a electrical pocket, the Electrician’s jurisdiction. The Electrician notes the pile is steaming, so is under the Prop department’s purvey. By the time the property master arrives, the shit is no longer steaming, he tells the Steward to call the Janitor, who is now on break…

P.S. "No Animals Were Harmed®" in the production of this joke, and any reference to "he" may also be inferred as "she", "they" or "dem guys"  .

Art

[frank kayser]

Sorry, I was being hypothetical as though I was living in that situation.
Although the way some state's laws end up being copied by others it could be an eventuality for all of us.

No. No. No, Craig.  No "sorry" necessary.  That's how we all think through a problem - put ourselves in that position hypothetically and see how that may affect us.  My apologies for my unfortunate language.  I can't imagine why I phrased as I did. 
Unfortunately, you're right about the spread of overregulation in the states - monkey-state see, monkey-state do.

[ProSoundWeb Community]