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[Steve Loewenthal]

The biggest factor seems to be that the Italian made Mackies hold up much better than the later Chinese made ones, or so I told. 

The sad joke is, If you want a good Mackie SRM, look for a really old one.

I have a couple Italian made ones. Here is what to look for. I got this from
http://www.mackie.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=115129
but the above link no longer works. Don't know if there is an equivalent current link.

Greg,
Thanks for the reply.
Here is what Mackie told me. Some factory codes have three digits, so it is easier to read it backwards. So in this case, (0M15610) would be:
Month =10
Year = 6
Factory = M15
Decade = 0

In all the ones I have seen (about 10) it has been M1 for Italy and M15 for China. The latest Italian speaker I have seen was March of 2003 and the earliest China has been Nov of 2004. I'm sure that others could narrow it down further. The guy at Mackie said he would guess they might have even had some overlap.

[Jeff Bankston]

It depends on the speaker. Vocals in my 12" mid sound just as good as my 10" mid. They are the same brand mids and crossed into a 2" horn. Comparing different brands isnt a fair comparison.

[Jeff Bankston]

So as a follow up:

Our current PA is Mackie SRM550's over one SRM1850 sub.

Yamaha DBR10's as monitors and an EV ZLX 12p for me as a drum monitor if I don't use my wired in ears.

Were I to upgrade the mains, thoughts on whether two 10" over 1 sub, or two 12" over 1 sub? We are two guitars, bass, drums (all 4 sing), everything typically through PA. Guitars and bass still use amps on stage.

Pop/Rock cover bar band. Normal local bar venues. We aren't super loud.

For FOH I like 2 12" mids per horn and woofer. I can run the mids at less power for the same spl and the vocals are better. I dont run a sub woofer type setup either. I use 18" woofers(I have 15" woofers also) and cross them at 130hz 24db. I run the 12" as mids only and cross them 12" 130hz 24db. I found that taking the bass out of the mids gives more detailed midrange. Its hard to say if 2 10" or 2 12" would be better because there are many crappy sounding PA speakers of all sizes. I use Ciare for my mids. The board, amps , crossover , etc all play a part in the sound quality. You can have the best vocal speakers made and a crappy board can muddy the sound. The whole PA system has to taken into account.

Also I cross the 12" mids into a Radian 850PB 2" compression driver at 1500hz 24db. Thats where it sounds best. As I go lower the sound starts to get to bright. I cross the same Radian CD at 1900hz with the 10". Crossover frequencies are very important.

As for beaming I can stand about a foot back from the 12" and about 15 feet to the side and still hear the mids really good. Beaming is much. And nobody in the audience is going to be closer than 5 feet from the stage. I also dont think it matters to much cause me and others always tried and some times did get to stand several feet from a wide stage in the center to see the big time bands. I wasnt thinking about weather the mids beamy or not. When you set you mid to horn crossover point for the best sound(and have the other band members listen) stand at the middle of the stage as close as you can get and listen to the midrange. 

[Doug Fowler]

FWIW the best sounding (subjectively) sounding loudspeaker for vocals I have used is NEXO PS10.  It sounds different than the others in the PS line.  I have no idea why, but they really shine on vocals.

[Luke Geis]

10" speakers in theory and in general should sound better than most 12" and especially 15" models for vocals. Two reasons, accuracy, and bandwidth. 15" speakers generally have a fair amount of woof and heft to their low end, that's fine if you're into that, but the clarity of the vocal stems from having a smooth and not so heavy low end. Since 10" speakers tend to be a little weak in the low end, getting clear yet natural vocals is a little easier.

I don't see much point to argue about the crossover point. If you have three speakers from the same lineup ( 10" - 15" ) they will likely all use the same HF driver and crossover point. So the clarity of one over the other is likely more due to reduced low-end woof. What may become more evident is the off-axis response? Smaller woofers tend to have a better off-axis response and will tend to sound more even over a larger area. This is at the cost of course, of bandwidth and peak potential SPL. As with anything, there is always a compromise.

I would tend to stick to 12" speakers as being the ideal 2-way speaker choice for two reasons. First is that a 12" speaker generally has plenty of bandwidth to be used for just about all situations within reason. Second is that the off-axis response is within reason given the performance boost a 12" has over a 10" model. In short, a 12" speaker is the perfect compromise between a 10" and a 15" model. You get the SPL, the bandwidth, and an overall reasonable level of quality and performance. To be honest, if you can't make a 12" work, then whether you have a 15" or a 10" is moot.

[Douglas R. Allen]

At band practice we have been using a single Mackie SRM550 for just vocals (quieter practice with my electronic drums), as that's our normal main speakers. We're practicing with middle school students as singers for a charity rock concert we do every year.

This past practice I switched to using one of our Yamaha DBR10's that are usually used as monitors.  It really seemed like the Yamaha had much better clarity and it was easier to hear the vocals.

My question is whether the general feeling is it's a function of speaker size, or the differences in the actual speakers themselves. It's pushing more towards replacing the Mackies, which I was already leaning towards.

I've grown to really like 4 - 6.5 inch drivers for vocal's. They just sound right to me.  I also like 2 - 8 inch drivers as well. Db IG4T and Db IG2T's. 

Douglas R. Allen

[duane massey]

I won't settle for anything less than an 11" woofer.......

[Jeff Bankston]

I won't settle for anything less than an 11" woofer.......

thats all fine and good BUT does your amp go to 11 ? my amps go to 12" !!!! T W E L V E ! 12 !

[Chris Grimshaw]

My amps go to +32(dB).

Chris

[Jeff Bankston]

My amps go to +32(dB).

Chris

alright I'm going home !

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