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Author Topic: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan  (Read 659 times)

Keith Finch

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Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« on: February 10, 2019, 12:21:01 am »

I am looking for a solution to using the Waves Dugan plugin with a M32R, X-WSG card and Waves server. It works fine as 32ch with all channels routed as normal pre fader inserts, or as 16-post fader and return them to ch17-32. But now I want to do 32ch post. My idea is to add a M32C to the setup. Would the patch below work. (Think Corporate talking heads)

The main goal is to get Solo functions and Mute functions on mixer while using the Dugan mixer plugin. Yes this is over the top and can be done on other mixers much easier. But this is what we will have access to.

Available devices are M32R, Waves X_WSG & Server running Dugan Mixer, M32C

DS32 AES50-A to M32R AES50-A
Patch AES50-A to inputs 1-32
Patch Output 1-16 as Direct Out Post fader to Output 1-16
Patch Ultranet as Direct Out 17-32
Patch Card Out as (Out 1-16 to Outputs 1-8, 9-16) & (Ultranet 1-16 to Outputs 17-24, 25-32)
Patch AES50 A/B as Card 1-32 to AES50-B 1-32
Patch AES50-B from M32R  to AES50-A on M32C
On M32C
Patch Inputs AES50-A 1-32 to CH 1-32
Mix 1-32 to L&R as unity gain
Use Matrix/other sends as normal post fader sends as needed.

If someone has 2 X/M32 mixers to test this on I would love to know the results. I may be misunderstanding the patch setup in the mixers.

Thanks
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 08:06:48 am »

I am looking for a solution to using the Waves Dugan plugin with a M32R, X-WSG card and Waves server. It works fine as 32ch with all channels routed as normal pre fader inserts, or as 16-post fader and return them to ch17-32. But now I want to do 32ch post. My idea is to add a M32C to the setup. Would the patch below work. (Think Corporate talking heads)

The main goal is to get Solo functions and Mute functions on mixer while using the Dugan mixer plugin. Yes this is over the top and can be done on other mixers much easier. But this is what we will have access to.

Available devices are M32R, Waves X_WSG & Server running Dugan Mixer, M32C

DS32 AES50-A to M32R AES50-A
Patch AES50-A to inputs 1-32
Patch Output 1-16 as Direct Out Post fader to Output 1-16
Patch Ultranet as Direct Out 17-32
Patch Card Out as (Out 1-16 to Outputs 1-8, 9-16) & (Ultranet 1-16 to Outputs 17-24, 25-32)
Patch AES50 A/B as Card 1-32 to AES50-B 1-32
Patch AES50-B from M32R  to AES50-A on M32C
On M32C
Patch Inputs AES50-A 1-32 to CH 1-32
Mix 1-32 to L&R as unity gain
Use Matrix/other sends as normal post fader sends as needed.

If someone has 2 X/M32 mixers to test this on I would love to know the results. I may be misunderstanding the patch setup in the mixers.

Thanks

Does the Waves Dugan Plugin allow you to sub mix all 32 channel into it down to 1 channel? This would allow you to not need to use the individual returns. I do something like this using Shure SCM810 auto mixers.
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brian maddox

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 02:20:08 pm »

Does the Waves Dugan Plugin allow you to sub mix all 32 channel into it down to 1 channel? This would allow you to not need to use the individual returns. I do something like this using Shure SCM810 auto mixers.

If the Dugan Waves plugin is consistent with all of Dan's other products, it won't have actual "mixing" built in.  But i may be wrong.

as an aside...  I saw your reference to using SCM810s in another thread as well and it brought back a fun memory.  I once had 48 channels of SCM810 routed via direct outs post fader from a PM4000.  returned the whole whole pile back to one channel [stereo in in this case].  Worked like a champ.  That's what introduced me to the magic that is post-fader auto mixing.  Still a totally valid approach.

To the OP.  Yes, this routing should work.  Not sure what effect it'll have on latency, but i suspect in your application that's not a huge concern.
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brian maddox
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Keith Finch

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 06:52:30 pm »

Does the Waves Dugan Plugin allow you to sub mix all 32 channel into it down to 1 channel? This would allow you to not need to use the individual returns. I do something like this using Shure SCM810 auto mixers.
No you cannot Sum channels within the waves system unless you use The LV1 which would allow use of the X/M32 preamps then rout out to the Waves programs. you could use LV1 mixer and Dugan plugins then return to the X/M32 for physical outs. This would be all mixing in the box. I would like to keep all operator attention on the mixer and not be bouncing back to the software. With the Dugan patched as Pre fader insert I must Mute the unused channels on the software to remove them from the automix scene. Think of doing multiple 8 person talking head panels, 1-8 are on stage, 9-24 are in the green room showing up at random times. I want to check levels during show and just before the next panel walks up. I have to keep the offstage mics Muted or in another group within the software otherwise it triggers the offstage mic killing the onstage speaker....not a good thing. If I can get the mics patched as Post fade before the Dugan I can check levels, and keep show going like it was a play. I miss all my SCM810s and 3k/4k/Series 5/ Gamble setups.  yes I am that old!
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brian maddox

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 07:22:56 pm »

No you cannot Sum channels within the waves system unless you use The LV1 which would allow use of the X/M32 preamps then rout out to the Waves programs. you could use LV1 mixer and Dugan plugins then return to the X/M32 for physical outs. This would be all mixing in the box. I would like to keep all operator attention on the mixer and not be bouncing back to the software. With the Dugan patched as Pre fader insert I must Mute the unused channels on the software to remove them from the automix scene. Think of doing multiple 8 person talking head panels, 1-8 are on stage, 9-24 are in the green room showing up at random times. I want to check levels during show and just before the next panel walks up. I have to keep the offstage mics Muted or in another group within the software otherwise it triggers the offstage mic killing the onstage speaker....not a good thing. If I can get the mics patched as Post fade before the Dugan I can check levels, and keep show going like it was a play. I miss all my SCM810s and 3k/4k/Series 5/ Gamble setups.  yes I am that old!

The advantages of Post Fader automixing are well established.  In fact, Yamaha updated the firmware in the LS9 back in the day Specifically because Dante MY card users complained about the lack of post fader insert points.

I think your patching ,while a bit complicated, should work fine.  You're basically just using the second M32 as a summing mixer for your Waves Dugan rig, which makes perfect sense.
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"It feels wrong to be in the audience.  And it's too peopley!" - Steve Smith

brian maddox
bdmaudio@gmail.com

'...do not trifle with the affairs of dragons...

       ....for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup...'

Keith Finch

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 08:10:06 pm »

The advantages of Post Fader automixing are well established.  In fact, Yamaha updated the firmware in the LS9 back in the day Specifically because Dante MY card users complained about the lack of post fader insert points.

I think your patching ,while a bit complicated, should work fine.  You're basically just using the second M32 as a summing mixer for your Waves Dugan rig, which makes perfect sense.
That's the idea, I just wanted to verify this will work before ordering a M32C to stick in my Waves rack.
KF
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brian maddox

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 08:22:02 pm »

That's the idea, I just wanted to verify this will work before ordering a M32C to stick in my Waves rack.
KF

I looked at your patching scheme and the only wrinkle i see if that once you've mixed your automixed M32C inputs to LR, how do you get them OUT of the M32C?  The dang thing doesn't really have any analog I/O.  Just curious.
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"It feels wrong to be in the audience.  And it's too peopley!" - Steve Smith

brian maddox
bdmaudio@gmail.com

'...do not trifle with the affairs of dragons...

       ....for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup...'

Keith Finch

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 10:58:17 pm »

I looked at your patching scheme and the only wrinkle i see if that once you've mixed your automixed M32C inputs to LR, how do you get them OUT of the M32C?  The dang thing doesn't really have any analog I/O.  Just curious.
I forgot the last patch....yes more....

The M32c LR to Matrix 1-6, those patch to AESB out of the M32C and go to the AESB Outs of the DL32
or
back through the full chain to the AES50-A to Outputs of the DL32

I will be testing this tomorrow evening, I got access to a X32 to test with for a couple hours.
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brian maddox

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 03:49:33 pm »

I forgot the last patch....yes more....

The M32c LR to Matrix 1-6, those patch to AESB out of the M32C and go to the AESB Outs of the DL32
or
back through the full chain to the AES50-A to Outputs of the DL32

I will be testing this tomorrow evening, I got access to a X32 to test with for a couple hours.

Should work swimmingly.

You could return those 6 matrixes to the Aux Ins on the M32 which would give you handles for those that you could grab, assuming you're not using those for something else.  That's probably what i'd too.

Let us know how it turns out.  I love creative solutions to problems....
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"It feels wrong to be in the audience.  And it's too peopley!" - Steve Smith

brian maddox
bdmaudio@gmail.com

'...do not trifle with the affairs of dragons...

       ....for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup...'

Keith Finch

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Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 12:09:47 am »

Tested patching today. Only had 30 min to setup and run through inputs. Worked as planned through to the second mixer with all Post fader sends to Waves. It will work out fine. Did not have time to return the outputs of the 2nd mixer via AES50 to DL32, but I am confident I can get that part to work.

I will work on the out path back to the Aux inputs next time I can get access to the another mixer. I will try to borrow a X32 Rack later this week to finish testing.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Expanding a M32R with M32C and Waves Dugan
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 12:09:47 am »


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