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Author Topic: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?  (Read 1504 times)

Riley Casey

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B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« on: February 08, 2019, 11:09:24 am »

I've liked coax's for a long time and I've often thought that something between a 12" and a 15" could be a real sweet spot for stage monitor use.  Low and behold B&C now makes a 13.5" coax driver with a neo magnet. ( 14CXN88 )  Seems promising but on the other hand I know that Turbo uses the B&C 12s and 15s in their near MI grade wedges and those I have not been overwhelmed with.  Might be how they were implemented by Turbo and the vendor for those shows but it gives me pause.  Has anyone heard the B&C 14" speakers and have any opinions?

Art Welter

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2019, 08:14:54 pm »

...on the other hand I know that Turbo uses the B&C 12s and 15s in their near MI grade wedges and those I have not been overwhelmed with.  Might be how they were implemented by Turbo and the vendor for those shows but it gives me pause.  Has anyone heard the B&C 14" speakers and have any opinions?
Riley,

The B&C14CXN88 does look like a very nice driver!
I have not heard the new 14CXN88, but I doubt that the drivers used in the Turbo "near MI grade wedges" are of that grade.
 
See Peter Morris reply #14:
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,163665.10.html

Although Turbo did use B&C prior to Behringer, are you sure the newer units you heard actually do use B&C?

And even if they do use B&C, there are a lot of price points available in their line, and OEM products that may not have even have any spec sheets available to us, making comparisons difficult.

Art
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Steven Eudaly

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2019, 01:43:19 am »

FWIW, we have 12x d&b Max2 wedges, a single-15" passive coax. Everyone loves them, engineers and artists alike. I'm guessing that driver performs very similarly in the right cabinet.

Mark Wilkinson

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2019, 11:57:06 am »

I flipped a coin whether to get the 14cxn88 or the 15cxn88.
Like you, I liked the idea of the 14" for a wedge.
But i liked the 15" a little better for a crazy morph off the Danley SM-80....the idea being to add a bit of cone to the coax ala the sm-80, but with ports to go lower, and maybe a plate amp...

15" won the toss, so I've been playing with the morph idea first....first iteration was attached pict ...it's working very well, but there's still a few things to try..

As soon as that project is over, I'm going to give a wedge a go..
I don't have much experience with wedges, so I doubt any observations about what I build would be of real value to you guys...

All that said, I do like the driver a lot.  So far, it's a pretty neat one-driver solution for a main.
 
Maybe I paid too much, but I can't see these drivers making their way into anything other than premium wedges..




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Steve Payne

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2019, 12:32:14 pm »

I've liked coax's for a long time and I've often thought that something between a 12" and a 15" could be a real sweet spot for stage monitor use.  Low and behold B&C now makes a 13.5" coax driver with a neo magnet. ( 14CXN88 )  Seems promising but on the other hand I know that Turbo uses the B&C 12s and 15s in their near MI grade wedges and those I have not been overwhelmed with.  Might be how they were implemented by Turbo and the vendor for those shows but it gives me pause.  Has anyone heard the B&C 14" speakers and have any opinions?

A 13.5" coax in a wedge sounds intriguing.  (See what I did there?)  I have B&C drivers in a LOT of OEM speakers, as well as original Turbo TFM122.  (Which may have been what you heard at RFF and didn't like?? - Though it seems more likely that you may have heard the new Behringer made plastic end cheek TFM122 knock offs which use Chinese made speakers.)  Be that as it may, why don't you give Bennet Prescott a shout about the speaker you are interested in?  He is all things B&C/USA. 
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Peter Morris

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2019, 09:06:59 pm »

A 13.5" coax in a wedge sounds intriguing.  (See what I did there?)  I have B&C drivers in a LOT of OEM speakers, as well as original Turbo TFM122.  (Which may have been what you heard at RFF and didn't like?? - Though it seems more likely that you may have heard the new Behringer made plastic end cheek TFM122 knock offs which use Chinese made speakers.)  Be that as it may, why don't you give Bennet Prescott a shout about the speaker you are interested in?  He is all things B&C/USA.

There is also an even cheaper TFX range ....

http://www.musictribe.com/Categories/Turbosound/FLASHLINE-MONITORS/TFX122M-AN/p/P0BMU   https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TFX122MAN--turbosound-tfx122m-an-flashline-series-2-way-stage-monitor-12-inch

FWIW I used the "real" TFM115's ( https://bcspeakers.com/en/products/coaxial/15-0/8/15hcx76 ) last night with an old national level act, its was the engineers 624th show with the band  - he gets to use a lot of diffent systems - and he commented how much he like the wedges.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 07:44:12 am by Peter Morris »
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Steve Payne

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 05:12:52 pm »

There is also an even cheaper TFX range ....

http://www.musictribe.com/Categories/Turbosound/FLASHLINE-MONITORS/TFX122M-AN/p/P0BMU   https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TFX122MAN--turbosound-tfx122m-an-flashline-series-2-way-stage-monitor-12-inch

FWIW I used the "real" TFM115's ( https://bcspeakers.com/en/products/coaxial/15-0/8/15hcx76 ) last night with an old national level act, its was the engineers 624th show with the band  - he gets to use a lot of diffent systems - and he commented how much he like the wedges.

The original TFM series monitors are a no apologies necessary tool in my opinion.  I am very happy with the TFM112s and TFM560s we have.  I have never had an engineer complain about them. 
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2019, 07:35:36 am »

In my experience, coax speakers that utilize both a large VC/large exit HF with a waveguide are the most consistent performers.
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Riley Casey

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 10:15:31 am »

That was a part of what prompted me to ask if anyone had experience with these coaxes.  The fact that they are depending on the cone surface as a waveguide extension for the HF is not encouraging.

In my experience, coax speakers that utilize both a large VC/large exit HF with a waveguide are the most consistent performers.

Chris Grimshaw

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Re: B&C 14" coax for wedges ?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 10:38:59 am »

That was a part of what prompted me to ask if anyone had experience with these coaxes.  The fact that they are depending on the cone surface as a waveguide extension for the HF is not encouraging.

It's not necessarily a bad thing. Having a HF horn suspended in the middle of the LF cone means there's a lot of room for diffraction to come in - see if you can find some graphs of raw horns vs mounted in a baffle. The differences aren't subtle.
Then there's reflections from the midbass driver against the back of the horn - you'll need a low crossover to get around that, which means more strain on the HF driver, while the horn isn't really big enough to load down low anyway.

So, I'm not sure it's as clear-cut as simply having a horn makes the coaxial better - everything's a compromise.

FWIW, I'm working on a passive 10" coaxial monitor at the moment. The cone is part of the HF horn. Sounds fine, with a response smooth enough to be more-than-just-usable with four crossover components. A few dB of EQ does get it sounding better, though.
Can't say much more than that - the manufacturer wants rights to the cabinet and crossover designs.

Chris
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