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Author Topic: New outdoor season - New toys?  (Read 2357 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: New outdoor season - New toys?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2019, 05:58:41 pm »

Hey Guys,

   I'm thinking about getting some better speakers for the talking head things that we do. I've been using 4 EON 612's in a long 125ft by 60ft wide building at the local fairgrounds. Metal, high ceiling and concrete floors. And I've always had trouble getting the "oomph" out of them; probably because they don't have any.  And let's face it, Joe Blow the guest speaker doesn't have great mic technique.

   Thinking of the PRX because they would pay for themselves faster,  but might break down and get the SRX-P and just "buy once cry once".

Scott

I'm not a big EON fan, but what is the "oomph" you speak of?  For talking head gigs?

What are you trying to fix or improve?  Horizontal or vertical coverage?  Better pattern control for less feedback opportunity?  Higher SPL to overcome ambient noise?

The ultimate compliment for talking head gigs is for folks to ask "is the PA on" and then when you turn it off they go "oh."  Making it sound like the presenter is simply speaker louder and more clearly is the goal... until you have the client that expects, no, demands, that it "sound amplified."
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Dave Garoutte

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Re: New outdoor season - New toys?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2019, 07:05:25 pm »

Sounds like a case for delay speakers.
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: New outdoor season - New toys?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2019, 12:01:57 am »

Is that A or C weighted?

What about the response time?

Or peak?

Often there is a 30dB (or more) difference between A slow and unweighted peak SPL numbers.

Since 30dB is a factor of 1000, it DOES make a difference what parameters are associated with the SPL number.

Since you are trying to "hit a targetr", it helps to know exactly what the target is.

That would be db(A) fast, as the local permit states max 93 db(A) fast on the nearest residential building, measured at 5' high, 3' from the wall.
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Mike Caldwell

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New toys? Lets talk sub amps!!
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2019, 12:47:32 am »

While my MA3600's work great, sound great, look great, have never given the first hint of trouble they have some how gotten heavier over the years!

What's the consensus on PL380's for subs these days?
What favorites do you have in that 2000 watt range at 4 for a sub amp.

While I'm sure the Powersoft X and K series are excellent the price would be an issue.

Helge A Bentsen

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Re: New toys? Lets talk sub amps!!
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2019, 05:15:41 am »

While my MA3600's work great, sound great, look great, have never given the first hint of trouble they have some how gotten heavier over the years!

What's the consensus on PL380's for subs these days?
What favorites do you have in that 2000 watt range at 4 for a sub amp.

While I'm sure the Powersoft X and K series are excellent the price would be an issue.

Powersoft T602? 2x 2500W/4 ohm.


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John Schalk

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Re: New toys? Lets talk sub amps!!
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2019, 09:02:19 am »

While I'm sure the Powersoft X and K series are excellent the price would be an issue.

There is a K6 with DSP in the Marketplace right now for $1850!  2500 watts @ 4 ohms stereo and able to drive 2 ohms if needed.
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boburtz

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Re: New toys? Lets talk sub amps!!
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2019, 11:52:47 am »

What's the consensus on PL380's for subs these days?
We use PL380 on subs at four and two ohm and have never been let down. I think they are a great bang for the buck, very efficient and have proven to be 100% reliable so far. We have half a dozen of them that have been in use for many years. Our previous sub amps were PL6, which were also great. I never noticed a difference in performance, just lighter weight and smaller size.
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scottstephens

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Re: New outdoor season - New toys?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2019, 01:03:13 pm »

I'm not a big EON fan, but what is the "oomph" you speak of?  For talking head gigs?

What are you trying to fix or improve?  Horizontal or vertical coverage?  Better pattern control for less feedback opportunity?  Higher SPL to overcome ambient noise?

The ultimate compliment for talking head gigs is for folks to ask "is the PA on" and then when you turn it off they go "oh."  Making it sound like the presenter is simply speaker louder and more clearly is the goal... until you have the client that expects, no, demands, that it "sound amplified."

Tim,
   
      I need to a higher SPL to overcome ambient noise.  The EONS have a 100 degree horizontal pattern at 1K or thereabouts. So yes, I would like a smaller dispersion pattern but it is secondary to my needs. I've just have never really been satisfied with the volume I've been able to get in this building. Every year I've tried different things. 2 years ago I added the 2  delay speakers. What has helped the most was last year I upgraded to a Senny Wireless hand held condenser.  And, Mike, I would really like the RCF NX32's, but the ROI just isn't there.

Thank you all, sirs. Keep the advice coming.

Scott
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Tim Hite

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Re: New outdoor season - New toys?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2019, 01:16:56 pm »

snip. . .

The ultimate compliment for talking head gigs is for folks to ask "is the PA on" and then when you turn it off they go "oh."  Making it sound like the presenter is simply speaker louder and more clearly is the goal... until you have the client that expects, no, demands, that it "sound amplified."

I get this a bunch with RCF TT52's. . .my favorite is when a presenter (or a groom in one case) gets upset and yells "can you guys even hear me?!?" and the entire room responds with a thunderous "YES!!!". Good times.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: New outdoor season - New toys?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2019, 01:38:57 pm »

Tim,
   
      I need to a higher SPL to overcome ambient noise.  The EONS have a 100 degree horizontal pattern at 1K or thereabouts. So yes, I would like a smaller dispersion pattern but it is secondary to my needs. I've just have never really been satisfied with the volume I've been able to get in this building. Every year I've tried different things. 2 years ago I added the 2  delay speakers. What has helped the most was last year I upgraded to a Senny Wireless hand held condenser.  And, Mike, I would really like the RCF NX32's, but the ROI just isn't there.

Thank you all, sirs. Keep the advice coming.

Scott

Hi Scott-

Yep, RF makes a difference.  For one of the corpy talking head gigs we do, I hired in Shure Axient this year.  WOW.  This replaced the SLX, UHF-R and Sennheiser G2 stuff I've used previously.  As the format of this gig doesn't change much I usually start with last year's  console file.

I ended up removing much of the channel strip EQ I'd used previously.  The mic elements were WL185 for the lavs (no matter what RF link) and that's where I found the biggest changes.

But your concern is with loudspeakers... and my experience has been that these gigs require precise coverage - not just for the audience area, but to keep stay PA away from the stage.  Once you've got a nice, tight and spectrally-consistent coverage loudspeaker you need to put them where they're needed.

In my case I have a lot of leeway with placement because I'm involved in the general planning discussions but you may not have the luxury (budget) to fly the PA *where it needs to be* or have an event person with aesthetic demands that prevent it.  There is no magic bullet for improving a bad PA location - everything becomes a bigger compromise than before.

I'd start with non-plastic PA.  Seriously, until you get in the high end of plastic boxes they're just resonators at multiple frequencies.  Next, the less "Christmas Tree" horizontal coverage, the better (that spectral consistency) which often means lower LF/MF/HF or LF/HF crossover points.  This is where RCF makes their money, IMHO.  That lower 1/2 to full octave xover means the MF doesn't have to go as far up into the "beaming" from the large cone transducer.  It also means that there will be a wider MF pattern as the HF horn is too small (usually) to provide meaningful pattern control.

That's why I use VerTec 4887 for this particular gig, a hang of 5 each, because the horizontal is more consistent than other compact speakers in our inventory... Those hangs are on Genie lifts, upstage, next to video screens.   The stage is centered between them and the presenters mostly are not in the coverage of the PA.  I have a small front fill I put next to the power point confidence monitor to cover the 12 seats that are on the inner edge of coverage down front.  With a non-whispering presenter I can get usable levels even if he/she walks the audience or moves downstage of the PA (even on-axis), if needed.

While I can't point you to a specific loudspeaker, Scott, I hope the "why" of how I've done some things helps you sort your options.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

ps.  If the ambient noise is from the audience you may have to enlist the assistance of the emcee to 'encourage' the audience to adopt an attitude of respect to the presenter.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut
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