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Author Topic: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits  (Read 4243 times)

Simon Eves

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Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« on: January 26, 2019, 12:35:58 AM »

I have been reading the various threads on here about SPL and noise ordinance.

Obviously there's no real way to estimate this in advance, but...

Outdoor amphitheater, probably a 50 yard diameter circle overall, ~250 seats, front seats and stage maybe 10' below outer level, then 8' solid wooden fence and trees around.

Residential areas maybe 150 yards away from outer boundary on three sides, with sparse trees along the way in most directions.

City ordinance is 50dBA during show-times, presumably measured at the residence.

I am aware of the math of SPL drop-off with distance and natural obstructions, but I'm struggling to reach any conclusions about the practical limits this set-up would have in terms of a musical theater production with wireless mics and a reinforced band through a PA of appropriate size (as yet undetermined).

Anyone care to take a guess at whether they will be able to run the show at a volume that makes the amplification worth the effort, without going over the ordinance limits at the residences?
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2019, 01:49:34 AM »

Unfortunately, there's no way to really estimate that in advance. You can do the math based on your starting level and decrease calculated by the inverse square law. But that doesn't take in to account the seating, acoustical barriers, and other ambient noise. Add to that the fact that SPL is cumulative,  and if a truck passes by the residence during your show, it will increase the SPL level accordingly, and the neighbor is unlikely to figure that in to their SPL complaints.

You can start by taking some base readings at their residence before your production ever loads in. Chances are that the ambient noise at their house, outdoors is over 50dBA any way.

You can always go to the City Council and petition for a variance during the times of your show. Explaining the common good to the community that it provides, etc...
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Justice C. Bigler
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2019, 07:04:37 AM »

I would totally echo Justices comments.  In straight line of sight, as a guesstimate you are only going to get about 9db reduction from the amphitheater boundary to the buildings.  I think you would be quiet at around 76 dB at the 50 yard (this is the level of a reasonably busy road).  As mentioned above, I would expect ambient noise in a quiet street to be around 60dba, so the spec is almost certainly a nonsense.

If the venue has a history of these events without trouble, I would just be mindful of the situation and do your best.
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2019, 01:06:53 PM »

You said "presumably" in describing where the 50dbA boundary is.  That's not specific enough.  Find out specifics of the City ordinance before you do anything else.  Where is the boundary?  Where is the measurement taken?  Was it taken all along the fence or only at one spot?
Is there a curfew for shows?  Is that 50dbA threshold relevant for all hours or just specific hours?
When was the 50dbA ordinance enacted?  Why was it enacted? 
What are the consequences for breaking the 50dbA threshold?  Is that threshold peak or average?  If average, how long is it required to go on before it becomes a violation?  Is it a violation if it measures 50dbA at one spot but not another? 
What entity owns the amphitheater?  Is there a different entity that manages it? 

I think you need to know the answers to every one of the above questions before you can attempt to make any case for raising that threshold.  There can be a lot of people to convince that the 50dbA threshold is unrealistic.  A small, unamplified chorus of singers would easily go past that threshold at the back wall of the seating area. 
If there is a government agency involved with the ownership and/or maintenance of the venue then it becomes even more complicated. 
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2019, 02:44:47 PM »

You are never going to get under 50dBA.

But you can be considerate of the neighbours.  Letterbox-drop them flyers saying what is happenning and what time of night the music will stop.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2019, 01:18:33 AM »

You are never going to get under 50dBA.

But you can be considerate of the neighbours.  Letterbox-drop them flyers saying what is happenning and what time of night the music will stop.
And MAKE SURE you stick to the advertised time.... You won't get a second chance.
Chris.
ya, 50dB is unrealisatic.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2019, 01:44:27 AM »

Simon, lots of advice so far but we've discussed noise from events a fair bit and IF you can get some Search Love, there was a gold mine of participation a few years ago.  I don't trust my memory for the specific suggestions that came from it but...

Get the city ordinance as written.  If that's the standard it's published.  It's what the production will be obliged to comply with, at least to start the discussions.  Make some measurements (play back some recorded dialog and music, maybe?) and observations if you can.

Next, I'd want to find out if there has been recent enforcement (search for municipal court cases with the ordinance number) and what the circumstances were.  Figure out who enforces this (police or health dept or?) and what methods and equipment they utilize.

Is there any hope of being mostly compliant?  If so, know what you have to do and do it until someone above you says "give me more!"  If not likely to be compliant what does research show to be best - play "oops, sorry about that, folks" or be pre-emptive, knowing that raising the issue could derail any permitting or licensing from the City?

There are lots of unexpected "stakeholders" in these kinds of things.  You may want the theatre's board members to do some of the sussing out of who else might be involved and what their positions are, and how they might be brought over to support your group.
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2019, 04:52:09 PM »

Let the local police (or city council, etc) know about the event, and when it will end.  Ephasise the nature of the event, eg community musical theatre.

Also bear in mind that the people who live 150 yds from an outdoor amphitheatre are probably quite accustomed to hearing events.



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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2019, 08:35:59 PM »

Let the local police (or city council, etc) know about the event, and when it will end.  Ephasise the nature of the event, eg community musical theatre.

Also bear in mind that the people who live 150 yds from an outdoor amphitheatre are probably quite accustomed to hearing events.
That's a great way to have the SPL police show up every night and issue a ticket every time you go over their arbitrary and unrealistic noise level.


You will have to petition the City Council for a variance in the noise ordinance (and hope they approve it), if you want to stay legal.
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2019, 09:27:25 PM »

City ordinance is 50dBA during show-times, presumably measured at the residence.

Have a look at this chart to see what you're up against, in short if the residents can even discern that there is something going on in the amphitheater then you are in violation.

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Outdoor Musical Theater and Noise Limits
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2019, 09:27:25 PM »


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