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Author Topic: Yorkville Synergy Line  (Read 4022 times)

Jeff Lelko

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2019, 05:31:39 pm »

To me, the Synergy line is Yorkville's way to add another "active cab" to grab some sales in that very crowded market.

That may be true, but then I really question how practical this would be given that the box weighs ~115 pounds and can't be pole-mounted.  At least other larger options such as the powered U15s, the RCF TTL6A, and various small arrays (QSC KLA for example) have the pole option along with stacking and flying, but without it I see it very hard to use in a smaller deployment.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2019, 05:38:46 pm »

Can you tell that much from just a picture? (Serious question, I'm not trolling).

The subs are a self-contained system with built-in power and processing and Yorkville specs a measured frequency response +/-3db down to 31hz so I'd assume that's inclusive of with whatever the cabinet's inherent limitations may be.

As I said in my post - a port with 1/3rd the area of the 15" cone caused 2dB of compression, and I wasn't even at "peak" levels.
Shoving lots of air through a small opening means high air velocities = friction = losses.

Ivan covers it in more detail quite well, but it's good to know where these effects are coming from.

Chris
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2019, 06:36:57 pm »

As I said in my post - a port with 1/3rd the area of the 15" cone caused 2dB of compression, and I wasn't even at "peak" levels.
Shoving lots of air through a small opening means high air velocities = friction = losses.

Ivan covers it in more detail quite well, but it's good to know where these effects are coming from.

Chris


Where did that post go from Ivan? Where he said most subs outputs are measured at 1 watt input?  Wasn't it in this thread?  Yorkville did state "measured output" as Measured Max SPL (C-Weighted, Max Hold) 130 dB Cont. 136 dB Peak.  Of course we know what MAX Hold is but it is stated as Measured output. Also how it sounds at those levels will be known I guess at a later date.   :-\

Douglas R. Allen
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Patrick Cognitore

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2019, 12:16:03 pm »

As I said in my post - a port with 1/3rd the area of the 15" cone caused 2dB of compression, and I wasn't even at "peak" levels.
Shoving lots of air through a small opening means high air velocities = friction = losses.

Ivan covers it in more detail quite well, but it's good to know where these effects are coming from.

Chris

I get what you're saying.

But I guess my thought is that you're looking at from a design perspective, but this system is already a finished product. So if the specs are accurate - yes, that's a big if - then the power compression and associated losses you predict are taking place but should already be accounted for in the measured response.

As an end user I guess I want the the design to be optimal, but more than that I want the system to perform as specified. If it does that without significant negative artifacts from any sub-optimal design issues then maybe it's all good? But maybe not - the sub could sound like total crap.

What he is talking about is the area of the port-NOT the response, or the processing etc.

I have not looked close enough, or know the tuning, but if the port is to small, then it will "choke off" at higher SPLs, causing the low end response to be not as low as it is at a nominal 2.83V drive level (which is where the response is measured at)

Nobody measures the response at full output.
 

This not an uncommon problem.

Everything is a compromise.  As you make the port area large (so it won't choke off or chuff), the length MUST be longer.

So this makes the cabinet larger.

Sometimes a larger size is ok, other times not.  It just depends on what the goal is, or expected performance.

Referencing the bolded type above - the specs list a measured response of 130db C-weighted, max hold. My comments are made under the assumption that the method used is valid and the spec is accurate. I admit my assumption could be wrong. And I realize that there is no specification of distortion values at max SPL nor any indication of how it actually sounds at that level.

Edit: Just saw that Douglas pretty much said the same thing.
-------------------

I'll also state that I'm not trying to be a Yorkville fanboy here, I've got no stake in the product and TBH it doesn't look like a good solution for any of my needs.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 12:19:12 pm by Patrick Cognitore »
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2019, 01:18:59 pm »

Referencing the bolded type above - the specs list a measured response of 130db C-weighted, max hold.

That probably is a valid measurement, but at what frequency?

 According to Yorkville, the SA315S has a +/-3dB response from 31Hz-100Hz, but they don't mention drive level so that is entirely meaningless.

 They list 136dB max output, but again, they don't mention drive level or the frequency at which they measured that output.

 Loudspeaker response does not increase linearly with drive level, they could have easily picked a peak in the response, meanwhile the actual output at 30Hz could be 10 dB down from that due to port compression and other factors.

 Unless Yorkville is going to publish charts at 1W vs 13000Watts, all we can do is guess what those numbers actually mean.
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Art Welter

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2019, 02:53:26 pm »

Unless Yorkville is going to publish charts at 1W vs 13000Watts, all we can do is guess what those numbers actually mean.
Just like we do with every other manufacturer...
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Pat Cognitore

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2019, 03:42:55 pm »

That probably is a valid measurement, but at what frequency?

 According to Yorkville, the SA315S has a +/-3dB response from 31Hz-100Hz, but they don't mention drive level so that is entirely meaningless.

 They list 136dB max output, but again, they don't mention drive level or the frequency at which they measured that output.

 Loudspeaker response does not increase linearly with drive level, they could have easily picked a peak in the response, meanwhile the actual output at 30Hz could be 10 dB down from that due to port compression and other factors.

 Unless Yorkville is going to publish charts at 1W vs 13000Watts, all we can do is guess what those numbers actually mean.
I made the assumption that the frequency response spec was tied to the Max SPL spec.

But I do see now that I probably should not make that assumption.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2019, 03:52:55 pm »

I get what you're saying.

But I guess my thought is that you're looking at from a design perspective, but this system is already a finished product. So if the specs are accurate - yes, that's a big if - then the power compression and associated losses you predict are taking place but should already be accounted for in the measured response.

As an end user I guess I want the the design to be optimal, but more than that I want the system to perform as specified. If it does that without significant negative artifacts from any sub-optimal design issues then maybe it's all good? But maybe not - the sub could sound like total crap.

Spenser covered this pretty well, but here are the facts we have:
- At some level, you get the specified frequency response, which is actually a pair of -3dB points. I'm sure you're aware of the caveats behind those.
- At the absolute ragged edge (ie, smoke may or may not be pouring out, but you can be sure the limiters have clamped the output in every way possible so the box simply won't get any louder), it'll do 136dB.

I'd bet my last 1 that the frequency response at 90dB and 136dB won't match.

That's my point here. My experience as a designer makes me suspect that the ports will be a source of non-linearity at a relatively low level. The result there will be the output from the drivers will carry on getting louder, but output from the port will start compressing.

Whether that's a problem or not will depend on program material and how loud you're running.

If you visit data-bass.com and read through some of the measurement sections, you'll get an idea of how much port compression can show up.

Chris
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2019, 08:20:32 pm »

Just like we do with every other manufacturer...

Until we all start sending cabinets to Josh Ricci  8)
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2019, 07:15:14 pm »

I heard the first "round robin" session at NAMM last week that included the Yorkville Synergy system.  The one thing that bothered me was the way the Synergy sounded with the presenters hand held wireless mic.  None of the other systems sounded that way with the vocal mic.  I'm not sure what was happening, but something just wasn't right.  I have heard Danley demos and the mics always sounded very natural.  The Yorkville were pretty "seamless" horizontally, and the music selections sounded acceptable thru the system. 

Just a general impression about the demo:  The music showed some strong points (and maybe some weakness) of the various systems.  All were professional and very usable systems.  But again to me, the presenters hand held mic told me more about how "natural" (or maybe neutral) the systems sounded.  I thought the systems that sounded best with the presenters mic also sounded the best with the music in general, and especially music that had a strong vocal content.  Maybe what I heard was how the presenters mic was equalized (and I'm assuming it was not changed for each specific system), but overall the systems I liked the most overall (and there were several) were the ones that sounded the most natural with the presenters mic. 
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Re: Yorkville Synergy Line
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2019, 07:15:14 pm »


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