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Author Topic: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?  (Read 7673 times)

Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2019, 11:40:54 am »

Just a thought: would anyone be interested in a DIY sub, like the LABSub, but something compact for rock 'n' roll?

I'm thinking single-15", small box, plenty of "punch" but sacrifices some <50Hz to get there. I'm thinking something to beat a KW181 in a smaller box.

Not a huge amount of work, and I'm happy to contribute.

Chris
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2019, 11:47:30 am »

Just a thought: would anyone be interested in a DIY sub, like the LABSub, but something compact for rock 'n' roll?

I'm thinking single-15", small box, plenty of "punch" but sacrifices some <50Hz to get there. I'm thinking something to beat a KW181 in a smaller box.

Not a huge amount of work, and I'm happy to contribute.

Chris

I would love this for some of the smaller gigs I have. I have a troop of TH118's now for bigger gigs. But I want to send out a TH-Mini15 or something for the smaller gigs. DIY sounds perfect as I don't want to spend money for something that won't be used often.

And yeah, it just needs to do kick & bass really well for rock/modern pop. None of the extravagant genre's.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2019, 07:38:14 am »

Well, with a 250-ish driver (Beyma 15P1200Nd) and a 62L (net - expect more like 80L built) cabinet is around 98dB@1w flat to 55Hz, and everything ought to stay linear for the first kilowatt (128dB continuous), and should pass 130dB for short periods if you've got something that'll put 2KW into an 8ohm load.

I plan to investigate how some 4ohm sub drivers look. Much easier to get 2KW into 4ohm than 8.

It'd be a small but loud box. Usefully, it'd get to about 200Hz without port resonances coming in, so you could run it with some fairly small tops.

Chris
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2019, 01:22:46 pm »

I ended up purchasing a pair of JTR Captivator 212 Pro active subwoofers from a fellow LABster.  Most of my summer gigs are outdoors so I have been using my Orbit Shifters and haven't had a chance to gig with the 212's yet so I've refrained from sharing my experiences since they have just been low-volume tests for now.  I'll provide an update once I have a few real gigs under my belt with them.
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Andrew Henderson

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2019, 02:12:08 am »

I ended up purchasing a pair of JTR Captivator 212 Pro active subwoofers from a fellow LABster.  Most of my summer gigs are outdoors so I have been using my Orbit Shifters and haven't had a chance to gig with the 212's yet so I've refrained from sharing my experiences since they have just been low-volume tests for now.  I'll provide an update once I have a few real gigs under my belt with them.
Hi Jeremy, I just found and read through this thread. Im in a similar situation as the one you were in when you started this thread, but with different reasons for wanting to change out my B rig. Have you had a chance to use the 212s much since you got them?

 My A rig is Danley SM80/TH118 (trailer pull, 1 or 2 person setup) and my B rig is Yamaha DSR112 over QSC KW181 (pickup truck with bed cover, 1 person setup). My main reason for looking for new subs is that the KW181s are about 2-3 inches too tall for me to close and lock the truck bed cover! Im also considering moving to 1 sub instead of 2 on the B rig, to differentiate the two rigs a little more, and because Ive had to stick one of the subs in the back seat of the cab a few times, which is just no fun.
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Jonathan Hole

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2019, 04:18:22 pm »

Hi Jeremy, I just found and read through this thread. Im in a similar situation as the one you were in when you started this thread, but with different reasons for wanting to change out my B rig. Have you had a chance to use the 212s much since you got them?

 My A rig is Danley SM80/TH118 (trailer pull, 1 or 2 person setup) and my B rig is Yamaha DSR112 over QSC KW181 (pickup truck with bed cover, 1 person setup). My main reason for looking for new subs is that the KW181s are about 2-3 inches too tall for me to close and lock the truck bed cover! Im also considering moving to 1 sub instead of 2 on the B rig, to differentiate the two rigs a little more, and because Ive had to stick one of the subs in the back seat of the cab a few times, which is just no fun.

Just found this and thought I'd reply as I have four 212pro's and use them as my smaller/modular subs to go with Jeff's 3TX or 2TX tops.  In fact one of the recent photos on JTR's Facebook page is my view from FOH looking past M32R at the two stacked 212Pro per side at a 1,000 seat outdoor amphitheater.  The 212pro work extremely well, nothing close it it for size, weight, and output that I've found.  I mostly use them for gigs where i want the entire PA to fit in my Durango (smaller 100 person private shows on one sub, have covered small ballrooms with two). You do miss that very low end if used to mixing on larger rigs, but you can't ask for anything more at this price, weight, size.  The finish and build on them is bullet proof as well.  In the photo I decided to bring all 4 for that outdoor show just to try them out in a larger setting and they handled the event well, many compliments, didn't even drive that hard.
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2019, 10:16:28 pm »

Hi Andrew, just found your reply. I havent yet had a chance to use the C212Pros for FOH with a band, which is what will really allow me to analyze them.  Ive done some tests at home so I could phase-align them with my SM80s, had a DJ play through them, and used them for bottom end under a wedge for a drummer.  The drummer was happy, as was the DJ, but all my other gigs have used the Orbit Shifters this season and I had to scale back how many gigs I did this year due to taking on a new day job that has really sucked up my spare time, plus planning a destination wedding. Enough about me, onto the subs.

Pros: I can lift one with one hand.  The handles are well-placed and they stack well.  They sound very hi-fi and have plenty of punch, but dont have that wicked extension that my OS Pros have.  The new Tool album sounded fantastic with them and the SM80s.


Cons: to be determined once I can throw some loud bands threw them in combat audio and see whether I find their limits, but so far I have yet to hear any signs of their limits.



I may make an xlr to xlr adapter with polarity reversal so I can play around with the pair of them as a cardioid stack since the plate amps have some built-in DSP but Ill need some time outdoors to know whether its viable. 


One of these days when I have some more time and nice weather Ill try to make some videos with measurement references.  Im pretty confident they have checked all the boxes on my list except perhaps brand recognition, but for the level Im at thats not a deal breaker.


Hope that information is helpful for you.  I will revisit this thread with more information as soon as I have more to share.
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Andrew Henderson

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2019, 12:32:59 pm »

The 212pro work extremely well, nothing close it it for size, weight, and output that I've found.  I mostly use them for gigs where i want the entire PA to fit in my Durango (smaller 100 person private shows on one sub, have covered small ballrooms with two). You do miss that very low end if used to mixing on larger rigs, but you can't ask for anything more at this price, weight, size.  The finish and build on them is bullet proof as well.
Thanks, Jonathan - this is good input! I couldn't find the photo you mentioned. Are you using these mainly for live music (as opposed to DJ)? That's my main usage.

Hi Andrew, just found your reply. I havent yet had a chance to use the C212Pros for FOH with a band, which is what will really allow me to analyze them.  Ive done some tests at home so I could phase-align them with my SM80s, had a DJ play through them, and used them for bottom end under a wedge for a drummer.
Pros: I can lift one with one hand.  The handles are well-placed and they stack well.  They sound very hi-fi and have plenty of punch, but dont have that wicked extension that my OS Pros have.  The new Tool album sounded fantastic with them and the SM80s.
Hope that information is helpful for you.  I will revisit this thread with more information as soon as I have more to share.
Thanks, Jeremy! I'm not in a rush and will keep my eye on these. Looking forward to hearing once you get these out with a band. I didn't realize they were small/light enough to carry with one hand - wow!
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Art Welter

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2019, 03:52:56 pm »

I didn't realize they were small/light enough to carry with one hand - wow!
The Captivator 212PRO weighs 67 lbs passive, or 71 lbs active.

I can remember watching Brutus (RIP) carrying a pair of dual 15" Crunchers, each weighing 160 pounds around like suitcases, one should check the actual weight before assuming something is "light" ;^).

Art
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2019, 01:44:31 am »

Option for wheels or no sale.

Problem with subs is there is no substitute for cubic inches, thus weight.
And when you have to carry 100 pounds of sub, why not get a 18" which is about the same weight, but usually has more potential. It is no coincidence there are very few 12" subs that made it into the rock'n'roll world. The ones that did are all (both?) 100+ lb units.

I honestly don't get why a lot of people keep asking for affordable, small, light subs which can do the same as a decent 18". There aren't any. Heck, it is hard enough to find a decent sounding 18". If you have a logistics problem, i suggest you solve that first.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 02:17:16 am by Geert Friedhof »
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Re: Lightweight Rock & Roll subwoofer, what have I overlooked?
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2019, 01:44:31 am »


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