ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?  (Read 3797 times)

Patrick Cognitore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2019, 03:01:47 pm »

There are a lot of posts in this thread, but I think this is what it boils down to: you're not going to get a lot of punch out of a pair of dual 10" reflex or bandpass subs, I don't care who makes them or how much they cost. For the $2400 street price for a pair of these, one could do a lot better spending that money on something else. A pair of JBL SRX818SP b-stock for about the same price would be a substantial upgrade.

I agree completely. To reiterate what I stated early on in the thread, I'm just a hired gun in this band, I've only been with the group for 4 months and I don't make any operating or purchasing decisions. They've welcomed my input and opinion, which I appreciate, many bands would've said "we've got this handled, shut up and play your bass." I make the same amount of money per gig whether I have a hand in shaping the sound or not, but if I'm on the gig I want it to sound the best it can.

I've got a pair of PRX718xlf subs sitting unused in my garage. They (and every other 18" sub and many 15" based subs) do not fit in the cargo bay doors of the band's bus, which are 18" tall. The band was using a JBL EON 600 series system and purchased the Bose system last year in part because it was one of the few integrated, self-powered systems that had subs that fit in the storage space. If I was on board then I would've advised them to look at other brands, but to get to the next level of subwoofer performance in a small package requires a jump in price bracket (see: QSC KS212C, JTR C212pro, etc.).
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20319
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2019, 03:43:16 pm »

...but to get to the next level of subwoofer performance in a small package requires a jump in price bracket (see: QSC KS212C, JTR C212pro, etc.).

I believe Jay Barracato expresses it as "+3db$"
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Patrick Cognitore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2019, 03:47:42 pm »

I believe Jay Barracato expresses it as "+3db$"

Once again, this forum needs a like button.
Logged

Simon_Barrett

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2019, 05:45:58 pm »

Just a quick question, but an important one.

What was the distance between the subs and the back wall. Could it have been approximately half wavelength of the punchy frequencies? Like around 1.5m to 2m between sub and back wall...

Causing an anti phase situation and making you think that there was little to no sub but actually it was a room acoustics thing?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Patrick Cognitore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2019, 06:01:16 pm »

Good question.

No, the subs were way off the back wall, probably 15-20'. I'll repost the pic of the stage/dancefloor area below. The photo's perspective really does not give a good idea of the distance from the back wall to the stage through the dance floor to the camera position, but the stage is about 12 to 15' deep and there is about 4' of dead space between the rear of the stage and the back wall. There is a parallel to the left side of the stage but it too is at least 25' feet away. I don't think boundary cancellation was an issue at the gig noted in the OP, but at that gig we did have the PA on the stage and for the subsequent event in the photo below it was placed on the floor.

Just a quick question, but an important one.

What was the distance between the subs and the back wall. Could it have been approximately half wavelength of the punchy frequencies? Like around 1.5m to 2m between sub and back wall...

Causing an anti phase situation and making you think that there was little to no sub but actually it was a room acoustics thing?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Bill Hornibrook

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 349
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2019, 07:27:04 pm »

I agree with many in this thread that a good place to start would be to run the system as it was designed.

Highpass mains at one frequency - rather than giving your bass an extra 10hz of low freqency extension (which I suspect could be aggravating the problem).

It's often mentioned in this forum, but center coupling subs can make a noticable difference - especially with smaller systems. Apparently there are pole mounts on the tops.

The best help would be to augment their system with your subs. Yeah I know this means transporting them youself, but I have done this countless times - even as a fill-in if the gig is important.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:45:33 pm by Bill Hornibrook »
Logged

Patrick Cognitore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2019, 12:36:43 pm »

I agree with many in this thread that a good place to start would be to run the system as it was designed.

Highpass mains at one frequency - rather than giving your bass an extra 10hz of low freqency extension (which I suspect could be aggravating the problem).
\

What do you mean by the bolded text? Are you referring to the channel HPF, or the out of band EQ being applied, or the system crossover itself?

The tops are high-passed (and the subs are low-passed) internally at the speaker itself.

It's often mentioned in this forum, but center coupling subs can make a noticable difference - especially with smaller systems. Apparently there are pole mounts on the tops.

I like this idea from an audio performance perspective. But center-placed subs are not likely to be an option in most venues. The F1 stack is a nice, little compact setup that only takes up 17" on each side of the stage - which pleases the clients. Many times space is tight and to place the subs centered and then add speaker stands to the equation would not work logistically nor be the aesthetic the band would want.

Ultimately that would not be my call, though.

The best help would be to augment their system with your subs. Yeah I know this means transporting them youself, but I have done this countless times - even as a fill-in if the gig is important.

I would be willing to transport my subs to gigs provided that I was adequately compensated for their use and for my driving. As it stands now the band all commutes together in the bus and shows are typically several hours drive each weekend night. So for me to go from being a passienger traveling to shows in a bus to now driving my personal vehicle hundreds of miles per gig and bringing more gear my compensation would have to go up considerably. Even then not sure I would want to do it.

Logistically for me (and the band) that doesn't really make sense. If a more powerful system is truly needed I think the band would rather invest in having that permanently on hand. And since there have not been any client complaints this whole issue is just me trying to optimize what we've got.
Logged

Dave Garoutte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1763
  • San Rafael, CA
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2019, 12:45:42 pm »

\

What do you mean by the bolded text? Are you referring to the channel HPF, or the out of band EQ being applied, or the system crossover itself?

The tops are high-passed (and the subs are low-passed) internally at the speaker itself.


The idea is to filter out the low frequency energy the subs can't replicate.
If the subs only go to 40 hz, high pass everything below that; the amp will have more usable power and the speaker won't heat up trying to reproduce something it can't.
Logged
Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.

Patrick Cognitore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2019, 12:54:45 pm »

The idea is to filter out the low frequency energy the subs can't replicate.
If the subs only go to 40 hz, high pass everything below that; the amp will have more usable power and the speaker won't heat up trying to reproduce something it can't.
Yes, I made that adjustment and some others. See updates below. Ironically, we have not had to push the system as hard since the gig referenced in the OP.

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,169578.msg1564882.html#msg1564882

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,169578.msg1564945.html#msg1564945

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,169578.msg1564946.html#msg1564946
Logged

Bill Hornibrook

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 349
Re: Bose F1 Sub, having issues. Any users have feedback?
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2019, 03:35:11 pm »

The idea is to filter out the low frequency energy the subs can't replicate.
If the subs only go to 40 hz, high pass everything below that; the amp will have more usable power and the speaker won't heat up trying to reproduce something it can't.

Yes... and to take this a little further...

Generally the Bose Way is to take mediocre drivers, and make them somewhat presentable with extensive processing. Based on the OP's original symptoms of rattling grilles and flapping speakers but little sound, I strongly suspect that there's a brickwall HP filter for the entire full-range signal in the tops, and by aux feeding the subs you are bypassing that protection. I would run the system as designed.

Patrick if you getting better results now, that's great. But I don't think there's any way this system is going to give you the sound you are looking for from your 5 and 6 string basses. If the distance is too far to transport your subs, you'll just have to roll with it. Best of luck...
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.065 seconds with 22 queries.