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Author Topic: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?  (Read 2544 times)

boburtz

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4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« on: December 12, 2018, 12:22:27 am »

I'm in the market for a digital snake to run redundant dante, a separate channel for dedicated control (I know this can be shared with the dante net, just would rather keep it separate), and would like to use the last of the four channels to run xlr 4ch breakouts for analog runs. The question is, what is the most pliable shielded 4 channel ethercon snake? We are migrating from the infamous Whirlwind blue 56 pair and I would like to keep it small and easily manageable. Any help is appreciated.
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MikeHarris

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2018, 03:49:17 am »

No 4 channel cat5 snake will be pliable.
WW just made me 2x 100m 4 ch cables for a install.
Michael called to make sure it's stiffness would not be a problem..as it was for a permanent install he felt it would not be an issue.
Sommer cable also makes what they call a Cat7 4x but it's pricey..@$1500 dealer + shipping from Germany
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 09:54:03 am »

I'm in the market for a digital snake to run redundant dante, a separate channel for dedicated control (I know this can be shared with the dante net, just would rather keep it separate), and would like to use the last of the four channels to run xlr 4ch breakouts for analog runs. The question is, what is the most pliable shielded 4 channel ethercon snake? We are migrating from the infamous Whirlwind blue 56 pair and I would like to keep it small and easily manageable. Any help is appreciated.
Mods feel free to move this if it's wrongly categorized.

I would recommend 4 individual cats loomed together.  If there is an issue with one, it can be fixed easily.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 10:03:08 am »

The fully jacketed 4-channel Cat5E/Cat6 snakes are definitely more flexible than the old W4 trunk, and a lot lighter. Still a bit big compared to a zip-tied bundle, but overall much nicer to work with.
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Thomas Dameron

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2018, 10:33:25 am »

Agreed with everyone else.  I'm a dealer for CBI, Rapco and TMB who all have 4ch options.  I don't feel like any of them are significantly better than any of the other ones.  Of those the TMB is slightly better and slightly more expensive. 

I have a few customers who prefer the clean look of a single quad cable.  They aren't very light and they definitely aren't flexible.  I would prefer to loom individual lines for all of the reasons listed.  I've also had lots of problems running intercom over cat to analog breakouts.  Depending on what kind of work you do I'd recommend including at least a 4ch fan-fan snake in the loom.

thomas d. 
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Elliot Carroll

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 10:40:17 am »

I would recommend 4 individual cats loomed together.  If there is an issue with one, it can be fixed easily.

I definitely second this notion.  Just loom 4 together, it will be the most flexible option.  Every multi-pair cat5 snake I've come across has been unruly to deal with.
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Steven Eudaly

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 12:40:27 pm »

+1 to the loom comments. CBI builds most of our cable, and we have several 200' Ethercon looms consisting of 2 or 4 cables e-taped together. Easily shared between lighting, audio and video departments.

Andrew Broughton

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 01:11:24 pm »

Just a quick reminder that if you need reliability for Dante, don't buy 100m cable, keep it to 80m or under.
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Miguel Dahl

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 03:21:18 pm »

I'm also in for the loom, instead of a four-in-one cable.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 03:23:31 pm by Miguel Dahl »
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 04:01:01 pm »

Just a quick reminder that if you need reliability for Dante, don't buy 100m cable, keep it to 80m or under.

Or use this cable
https://linkitaly.com/product/cat7-polyurethane-ethernet-cable/

" The Eurocable CAT7 Polyurethane Ethernet Cable is the first cable for Dante that was tested successfully to 150 m and is guaranteed to 120M for mobile applications. "
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Miguel Dahl

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 05:35:50 pm »

Or use this cable
https://linkitaly.com/product/cat7-polyurethane-ethernet-cable/

" The Eurocable CAT7 Polyurethane Ethernet Cable is the first cable for Dante that was tested successfully to 150 m and is guaranteed to 120M for mobile applications. "

Wow. You get what you pay for. The other day I had to "scrap" a 75m Cat7 Cable because it didn't work with dante. 150m even exceedes the cat5 specs.
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boburtz

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 02:25:26 am »

Wow. You get what you pay for. The other day I had to "scrap" a 75m Cat7 Cable because it didn't work with dante. 150m even exceedes the cat5 specs.
Wow, for some reason I have not been in the loop on the length limitation with dante reliability. I was under the false impression that 100m of shielded cat6 would be fine...
Topic swerve, who is using optical ethernet and what are you using? Seems like there are no practical distance limitations with fiber optics.
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Erik Jerde

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 08:51:22 am »

Wow, for some reason I have not been in the loop on the length limitation with dante reliability. I was under the false impression that 100m of shielded cat6 would be fine...
Topic swerve, who is using optical ethernet and what are you using? Seems like there are no practical distance limitations with fiber optics.

Optics for network is pretty easy.  Pick sfps that work with your switches and cable it up.  I have a 24 fiber single mode trunk connecting two control rooms about 100m apart.  Single mode because the bulk of the lines are used for video.  For distances like that you can use multi mode fiber just fine too.  In a portable setup just use panel mount opticalcon connectors.  Duo or quad depending on what your cabling needs are and what youíre able to cross rent in your market.  Duo has the advantage of just being a ruggidized LC connector so itís real easy to interface with.  I believe Neutrik even has ruggidized connections up to 24 fibers now.
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John P. Farrell

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 01:22:04 pm »

I definitely second this notion.  Just loom 4 together, it will be the most flexible option.  Every multi-pair cat5 snake I've come across has been unruly to deal with.

I've had great luck with Belden Catsnake (1304A4).  Its very flexible and durable, and gets dragged through conduit and shed troughs on a daily basis.  I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it and far prefer it to a loom. 

JF
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Pete Erskine

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2018, 03:37:58 pm »

I'm in the market for a digital snake to run redundant dante, a separate channel for dedicated control (I know this can be shared with the dante net, just would rather keep it separate), and would like to use the last of the four channels to run xlr 4ch breakouts for analog runs. The question is, what is the most pliable shielded 4 channel ethercon snake? We are migrating from the infamous Whirlwind blue 56 pair and I would like to keep it small and easily manageable. Any help is appreciated.
Mods feel free to move this if it's wrongly categorized.

Check out wireworks.  I am sure they have the most flexible wire possible and probably would send you a short piece to check.

http://wireworks.com/MCat524

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Scott Mullane

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2018, 03:52:13 pm »

I had my Tech. use CAT6 shielded Eurocable in four individual runs and jacket it with a light weight poly cover. It is great and never had a problem.
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MikeHarris

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2018, 03:42:57 am »

I've had great luck with Belden Catsnake (1304A4).  Its very flexible and durable, and gets dragged through conduit and shed troughs on a daily basis.  I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it and far prefer it to a loom. 

JF

I think that's the cable Michael wanted to use but it was out of production while production was being moved to Mexico
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Phillip Ivan Pietruschka

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2018, 01:59:44 am »

Wow, for some reason I have not been in the loop on the length limitation with dante reliability. I was under the false impression that 100m of shielded cat6 would be fine...
Topic swerve, who is using optical ethernet and what are you using? Seems like there are no practical distance limitations with fiber optics.

Itís a more general Ethernet limitation than anything terribly specific to Dante. If your runs are going to be anywhere near 100m they ought to be solid core, rather than stranded. Which is a bummer as the stranded handle better.

I use a good amount of the Opticon Duo connectors with single mode fiber for portable network connections, the compatibility as noted, with standard LC connectors is potentially an advantage. I found the lead times for cable couplers and end face inspection/cleaning adaptors to be appreciable and something that should be ordered well before needed (a few months lead time in Australia).
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 07:28:36 am by Phillip Ivan Pietruschka »
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boburtz

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2018, 06:00:38 pm »

Itís a more general Ethernet limitation than anything terribly specific to Dante. If your runs are going to be anywhere near 100m they ought to be solid core, rather than stranded. Which is a bummer as the stranded handle better.

I use a good amount of the Opticon Duo connectors with single mode fiber for portable network connections, the compatibility as noted, with standard LC connectors is potentially an advantage. I found the lead times for cable couplers and end face inspection/cleaning adaptors to be appreciable and something that should be ordered well before needed (a few months lead time in Australia).

As I research this project further I am coming under the impression that the ~70m suggested limitation is indeed for stranded cat5 cable. I don't plan on using the stranded stuff, even though the handling is far superior. Audio reliability is far more important. Am I correct in thinking that ~300' of solid core (looking at the ProCo SuperShield 4x) will be perfectly reliable?
The optical stuff looks great in terms of handling and reliability, but as soon as you start talking opticalcon, the price goes WAY up when adding in jumpers and panel mounts, etc..
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2018, 10:41:31 pm »

Am I correct in thinking that ~300' of solid core (looking at the ProCo SuperShield 4x) will be perfectly reliable?
The optical stuff looks great in terms of handling and reliability, but as soon as you start talking opticalcon, the price goes WAY up when adding in jumpers and panel mounts, etc..

I have not found any CAT5 to be perfectly reliable in any length. If CAT5 gets stepped on or moved your console may show errors, although there may be no perceptible dropout. I would be comfortable saying I have had perfect reliability with optical connections, and try to only use optical for any long runs. Most of the suppliers I deal with do this themselves.

Mac
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Re: 4 channel shielded ethercon snake?
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