ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?  (Read 4435 times)

Chris Wethington

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« on: December 09, 2018, 01:23:04 AM »

First, apologies if this is a repeated question. I did some searching through the forums and found a lot of helpful/useful information, but nothing that was exactly what I'm curious about so, without further ado...

My band is gradually updating our IEM system. We currently run a Behringer XR18. It sits next to our drummer, who's hardwired in to the main out (where he gets click, background FX, and main vox). Our vocalist is the only one with a wireless IEM, and he currently runs the FOH mic to a splitter at the base of the mic stand, gives FOH their clean split, and runs the other line into the XR18. He has his own mix of click/FX/himself (separate from the drummer).

We're going to be upgrading to where all of us (5 total) have our own ears. Our main thing is just hearing ourselves in crappy live situations. I've read a lot, seen a lot, and know a lot of people who will completely mic everything with their own mics, send those signals to an s8, then split to go into their mixer and separately to FOH. I think that's a great idea - albeit not entirely necessary for us.

So what I'm thinking about doing is getting our own mics for cabs, our own vocal mics (split as I detailed above), and a trash mic for the drums (just for the basic sound). Then rather than split it all, run OUR mics all into OUR system for our IEMs so we know that at least OUR mix is the same every show - and then let the sound guy do his thing with his own gear and mics. Does anyone else do that? A con is potentially more stuff to plug up , but then again mic'ing a drum set is really about the same in terms of number of hookups.

But also, in the hypothetical, if we were to spend a bit extra to get an s8 and self-contain all the splits, etc., and get mics for a full drum kit: How many mics and on what drums would be safe for a typical venue? I wouldn't want too much (don't really want to set up a ton of mics and overheads), but also wouldn't want not enough to where the mix isn't what it should be for FOH.

For reference: We run analog gear; tube amps & analog pedals. I know about TwoNotes, and would love to have those, but alas money is tight for the time being.

Thanks!

Logged

Roland Clarke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 841
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2018, 07:42:24 AM »

Or you could just get a split!

Even if you ultimately do decide to get your own microphones, I would still get the split and stick to mikes that are going to work in all scenario’s.  Nothing is more annoying than bands turning up with their own “pet” mic that really isn’t as good as they think it is.  It’s the same argument that you get with all the threads suggesting “better” alternatives to 58’s, 57’s, etc.  These are used by the top companies on their top of the range rigs and they make them sound great.  If you can’t, you need to look further up stream.
Logged

Chris Wethington

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2018, 01:16:05 PM »

Or you could just get a split!

Even if you ultimately do decide to get your own microphones, I would still get the split and stick to mikes that are going to work in all scenario’s.  Nothing is more annoying than bands turning up with their own “pet” mic that really isn’t as good as they think it is.  It’s the same argument that you get with all the threads suggesting “better” alternatives to 58’s, 57’s, etc.  These are used by the top companies on their top of the range rigs and they make them sound great.  If you can’t, you need to look further up stream.

You mean take a split of the FOH mics/signal? What I'm thinking is to have our own mics specifically for our IEM use (same mics every show-where as some venues will have varying mics, and sound guys of varying levels of competency) so that what we hear in our ears is consistent. Then, let the sound guy use the venue gear so he can do things as he normally does with the FOH mix.
Logged

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3091
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2018, 01:32:23 PM »

I would suggest building up a rack that contains the mixer, a rack mount splitter, all of the IEM transmitters, proper power and maybe even a rack drawer for storage.

 Have that all pre-wired and ready go, pull out the snake tail to patch into FOH, have drop snakes for your inputs and like Roland said use good industry standard mics, if you can't get "your sound" with the pro mic choices from Shure, Sennheiser or Audio Technica you have other problems.

If a wireless mic is part of your show step up and get a solid system, spending at least $600 for a system from one
of the above three will get you there.

Don't be that band who shows up at every gig and has to spend 45 minutes trying to figure out what's wrong with your IEM rig and or trying to remember how you patch it together.
Or to put it another way, the sound providers are the ones who end up looking like they are the ones having problems all because of a bands technical ineptness...and we don't like that!!!

One last thing buy a real splitter, mic cables and drop snakes.....not the garbage Seismic Audio stuff that Guitar Center sells.

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2018, 02:21:40 PM »

I would suggest building up a rack that contains the mixer, a rack mount splitter, all of the IEM transmitters, proper power and maybe even a rack drawer for storage.

 Have that all pre-wired and ready go, pull out the snake tail to patch into FOH, have drop snakes for your inputs and like Roland said use good industry standard mics, if you can't get "your sound" with the pro mic choices from Shure, Sennheiser or Audio Technica you have other problems.

If a wireless mic is part of your show step up and get a solid system, spending at least $600 for a system from one
of the above three will get you there.

Don't be that band who shows up at every gig and has to spend 45 minutes trying to figure out what's wrong with your IEM rig and or trying to remember how you patch it together.
Or to put it another way, the sound providers are the ones who end up looking like they are the ones having problems all because of a bands technical ineptness...and we don't like that!!!

One last thing buy a real splitter, mic cables and drop snakes.....not the garbage Seismic Audio stuff that Guitar Center sells.
I prefer a split snake to the rack mount splitter. I think it gives you more flexibility in where to land your signal cables and where to place the rack and stage box.

Festival setting, all the stage mics are prepatched to the foh stage box. You place your split box next to it. Anything needed in the monitors you unplug from FOH, plug it the split, and then replug the second tail of the split back into the same channel.

Nothing like having a band insist on needing their rack mount be SL so it is near the lead bassoon, but the FOH box is SR with all the cables prelaid and dressed.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Logged
Jay Barracato

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3091
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2018, 02:51:46 PM »

I prefer a split snake to the rack mount splitter. I think it gives you more flexibility in where to land your signal cables and where to place the rack and stage box.

Festival setting, all the stage mics are prepatched to the foh stage box. You place your split box next to it. Anything needed in the monitors you unplug from FOH, plug it the split, and then replug the second tail of the split back into the same channel.

Nothing like having a band insist on needing their rack mount be SL so it is near the lead bassoon, but the FOH box is SR with all the cables prelaid and dressed.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

And or a nice long tail to get to the FOH patch.

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2018, 05:34:43 PM »

When my old corporate band did the IEM thing, we had our own monitor mixer (which sat by the keyboardist, who was more able to tweak things than a drummer) ran our own mics and gave a split to the house.  The rack that held the mixer and receivers had a long snake coming out that was marked with all the inputs/channels.  House guys just plugged that into their stage box in whatever order/layout they were used to.  I had a clamp that fit onto my guitar cabinet with an e609 on it so I got a consistent sound.  At various times I also played around with a cabinet emulator.  Which also patched the same way.
This also allowed us to set up our own ambience or cue mics (sometimes the same mics).
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23743
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2018, 09:20:29 PM »

First, apologies if this is a repeated question. I did some searching through the forums and found a lot of helpful/useful information, but nothing that was exactly what I'm curious about so, without further ado...

My band is gradually updating our IEM system. We currently run a Behringer XR18. It sits next to our drummer, who's hardwired in to the main out (where he gets click, background FX, and main vox). Our vocalist is the only one with a wireless IEM, and he currently runs the FOH mic to a splitter at the base of the mic stand, gives FOH their clean split, and runs the other line into the XR18. He has his own mix of click/FX/himself (separate from the drummer).

We're going to be upgrading to where all of us (5 total) have our own ears. Our main thing is just hearing ourselves in crappy live situations. I've read a lot, seen a lot, and know a lot of people who will completely mic everything with their own mics, send those signals to an s8, then split to go into their mixer and separately to FOH. I think that's a great idea - albeit not entirely necessary for us.

So what I'm thinking about doing is getting our own mics for cabs, our own vocal mics (split as I detailed above), and a trash mic for the drums (just for the basic sound). Then rather than split it all, run OUR mics all into OUR system for our IEMs so we know that at least OUR mix is the same every show - and then let the sound guy do his thing with his own gear and mics. Does anyone else do that? A con is potentially more stuff to plug up , but then again mic'ing a drum set is really about the same in terms of number of hookups.

But also, in the hypothetical, if we were to spend a bit extra to get an s8 and self-contain all the splits, etc., and get mics for a full drum kit: How many mics and on what drums would be safe for a typical venue? I wouldn't want too much (don't really want to set up a ton of mics and overheads), but also wouldn't want not enough to where the mix isn't what it should be for FOH.

For reference: We run analog gear; tube amps & analog pedals. I know about TwoNotes, and would love to have those, but alas money is tight for the time being.

Thanks!

Much of what you need to know is here:

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,162175.0.html
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2018, 02:51:37 AM »

And or a nice long tail to get to the FOH patch.
My point is not about the tail but where all the mic cables terminate. Festival setting and bands 1 and 3 are on monitors with all of the mic cables run to the stage box. My method with a split snake allows a quick repatch to slice in band 2's monitors. If the split is in their rack, then you either must place it at the stage box or you will need to re-run every mic cable to their rack and then re-run them again when they are done.

The split snake allows me to set up a festival patch of mics and quickly access the ones that are needed.

This works so well, I even usually have my own split snake available, even when running monitors from the FOH board, and tell the band on in-ears that I will provide the split to get what they need to their monitors. This also helps when I want extra mics (2nd kick, snare bottom, cymbals) for FOH that the band doesn't usually use in their monitors, so they do not have a channel set. It also helps to quickly patch a talkback channel.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Logged
Jay Barracato

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2018, 09:03:39 PM »

At festivals we never bothered with the IEM system.  Good regional soundcos had plenty of good monitors.

The IEM system was for our own gigs where we were in ugly venues (weddings, corporate) or the promotional bar gigs where the sound was bad.  Based on the OP's description, I took his application was similar.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Live IEM System - To Mic or not to Mic?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2018, 09:03:39 PM »


Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.041 seconds with 25 queries.