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Author Topic: Comparison  (Read 2690 times)

Abel Duens

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Comparison
« on: November 21, 2018, 04:20:31 pm »

Hi, greeting to everybody, I would like some help with choosing a PA system for a church. Does anybody have any experience with the LD Systems Curv 500TS or Turbosound iP3000? I can't listen to this systems due to not being available to demo near where I live (Chattanooga TN) My main interest in either of these system is coverage. Would they be enough for our type of music (rock like) if I do end up buying either i'd be sending everything from bass through kick drum. The place I need to cover is 45w 60l and 18h. I have installed some sound deadening on the back and front walls. Our typical attendance is 100 to 150 and the dBA I would need is around 90-94 with peaks up to 100 which is what I attain now with my current system. Like I stated in mainly looking for better even coverage. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2018, 05:14:23 pm »

Hi, greeting to everybody, I would like some help with choosing a PA system for a church. Does anybody have any experience with the LD Systems Curv 500TS or Turbosound iP3000? I can't listen to this systems due to not being available to demo near where I live (Chattanooga TN) My main interest in either of these system is coverage. Would they be enough for our type of music (rock like) if I do end up buying either i'd be sending everything from bass through kick drum. The place I need to cover is 45w 60l and 18h. I have installed some sound deadening on the back and front walls. Our typical attendance is 100 to 150 and the dBA I would need is around 90-94 with peaks up to 100 which is what I attain now with my current system. Like I stated in mainly looking for better even coverage. Any help                    or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks


http://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/es/es-1203/

I'd put the Db ES 1203 on your short list too.  2-12 inch subs with 2 tops to be used in a stereo configuration or one on top of the other for a mono system for 1 on each side.  There is a video in the link. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=es+1203&&view=detail&mid=103BF40FF139B009EBCD103BF40FF139B009EBCD&&FORM=VRDGAR

Douglas R. Allen
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 05:23:03 pm »

What system did your Acoustical Consultant suggest?

-Ray
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Abel Duens

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2018, 06:23:20 pm »


http://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/es/es-1203/

I'd put the Db ES 1203 on your short list too.  2-12 inch subs with 2 tops to be used in a stereo configuration or one on top of the other for a mono system for 1 on each side.  There is a video in the link. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=es+1203&&view=detail&mid=103BF40FF139B009EBCD103BF40FF139B009EBCD&&FORM=VRDGAR

Douglas R. Allen

That's a little bit above what the church is willing to spend, the budget I was given was 4000, and answering Ray's question, I asked for that but was denied funds
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 06:27:59 pm »

That's a little bit above what the church is willing to spend, the budget I was given was 4000, and answering Ray's question, I asked for that but was denied funds
Abel,

You *need* to print this PDF and give it to the Powers That Be. You have a duty to be fiscally responsible for your church's funds, and unless you know that this purchased-for-$4,000-system is going to satisfy your needs (and the demands of your congregants) you're just in step-2 of this 3-system process.

-Ray
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Abel Duens

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 07:57:13 pm »

Abel,

You *need* to print this PDF and give it to the Powers That Be. You have a duty to be fiscally responsible for your church's funds, and unless you know that this purchased-for-$4,000-system is going to satisfy your needs (and the demands of your congregants) you're just in step-2 of this 3-system process.

-Ray
I forgot to add, around 5 to 6 times a year i take the system on the road to different Church events, the accoustics of the places I usually set it up are not the greatest, I guess I need the system to be as versatile as possible. Right now we don't have issues with feedback or intelligibility, it's just the issue with coverage. And as I said, I've been denied funds more then once, I have to work with what I was given
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David Sturzenbecher

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Comparison
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 08:07:02 pm »

I forgot to add, around 5 to 6 times a year i take the system on the road to different Church events, the accoustics of the places I usually set it up are not the greatest, I guess I need the system to be as versatile as possible. Right now we don't have issues with feedback or intelligibility, it's just the issue with coverage. And as I said, I've been denied funds more then once, I have to work with what I was given
Why are you limited to just the two speakers in your original post? What if a different speaker covers your space better?


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Abel Duens

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 08:20:33 pm »

Why are you limited to just the two speakers in your original post? What if a different speaker covers your space better?


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Right know we have speakers with a coverage of 90x60 but horizontally I need a little bit more then that. Those speakers caught my eye because of their horizontal coverage
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 08:24:14 pm »

Right know we have speakers with a coverage of 90x60 but horizontally I need a little bit more then that. Those speakers caught my eye because of their horizontal coverage
Your venue is longer then it is wide. Going to a wider box will reduce sound to the back of the room and put more energy on the walls, increasing reverberation and decreasing intelligibility.


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Abel Duens

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 08:48:33 pm »

Your venue is longer then it is wide. Going to a wider box will reduce sound to the back of the room and put more energy on the walls, increasing reverberation and decreasing intelligibility.


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I'm trying to get coverage to the sides at the front, that's where most of the holes are, theres little bleed from the stage because most of the musicians are on IEMs, the only bleed that I have is from the pastor's monitors
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 08:54:40 pm »

I'm trying to get coverage to the sides at the front, that's where most of the holes are, theres little bleed from the stage because most of the musicians are on IEMs, the only bleed that I have is from the pastor's monitors
Why not front fills then?


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Abel Duens

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 09:26:48 pm »

Why not front fills then?


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I've entertained that possibility, they would be small though, and would have to time align them right?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2018, 09:15:44 am »

Right know we have speakers with a coverage of 90x60 but horizontally I need a little bit more then that. Those speakers caught my eye because of their horizontal coverage
Something you need to consider.

Just because the "rated pattern" is 90x60, does not mean that it is 90x60 at all freq.

This is "nominal" coverage rating that has been assigned.

Depending on the cabinet and the freq, the actual pattern at that freq could be radically different.

In "most" cases, the pattern gets narrower at higher freq and wider at lower freq. 

The best way to determine the actual pattern at the freq of interest is to look at polar plots, directivity graphs or model the particular loudspeaker.

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 10:21:27 am »

Why not front fills then?


+1.
Some venues require more than one speaker per side to cover the entire area effectively. If your current system is missing the ends of the first couple of rows, front fills are the way I'd fix that for sure.

As someone has already said, a wide-dispersion main PA system just means more room reflections. Such systems have their uses, but I'm not sure they're the right thing for you.

Since it's a low-SPL situation (covering a few seats here and there doesn't need much), I'd be looking at 6-8" speakers.

Chris
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 12:59:30 pm »

I'm trying to get coverage to the sides at the front, that's where most of the holes are, theres little bleed from the stage because most of the musicians are on IEMs, the only bleed that I have is from the pastor's monitors
Just add a couple of side-fills if you are happy with the main system......
Chris.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2018, 02:09:19 pm »

So Iím not sure Iím understanding this, wide coverage at the front, enough volume, front fills and versatility, oh and $4,000 is definitely beyond the budget?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2018, 02:31:28 pm »

So Iím not sure Iím understanding this, wide coverage at the front, enough volume, front fills and versatility, oh and $4,000 is definitely beyond the budget?

Band-Aids, bubble gum and bailing wire are what's in the budget.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2018, 02:35:53 pm »

I was thinking tin cans and string! 😉
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Jerome Malsack

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2018, 09:55:07 am »

Front fills on the very edges can be used to fill the gap.  Time delays should not be needed because the fills are close to the same line as the main speakers.  If you draw a line across the fronts and the fills stay on the same line.  When you move forward from the line is when you start to need the time delays.  If you use powered speakers, is there a power plug in that area of the room to get power.   Do you want to pull signal xlr cables to the speakers or would you want to use IEM with two receivers.  Do you have enough space in the RF spectrum to support another IEM? 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Comparison
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2018, 02:33:09 pm »

Front fills on the very edges can be used to fill the gap.  Time delays should not be needed because the fills are close to the same line as the main speakers.  If you draw a line across the fronts and the fills stay on the same line.  When you move forward from the line is when you start to need the time delays.  If you use powered speakers, is there a power plug in that area of the room to get power.   Do you want to pull signal xlr cables to the speakers or would you want to use IEM with two receivers.  Do you have enough space in the RF spectrum to support another IEM?

No, this is fundamentally flawed.

To persons who cannot hear the main system (broadband, down -12dB or greater), alignment isn't an issue but to those seats where the main system and front fills contribute equal or nearly equal energy, the affected audience members are likely closer to the front fills, which should be delayed.  How much and where to measure that is where experience comes in.

In practical terms this means that even if the front fills and flown or elevated PA are on the same planar line, left to right, some of the seats are closer to the fills.  Which seat gets the optimal alignment in the overlap zone?  You decide; everywhere else is a compromise.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut
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