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Author Topic: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)  (Read 986 times)

Scott Holtzman

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XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« on: November 20, 2018, 07:33:16 pm »

On the second page of this article https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,169330.msg1560988/topicseen.html#new

Chris refers to "One of the first mic changes I made was switching the drum overheads to Earthworks SR30s, and from a traditional separated pair of stands to an XY coincidental pair suspended directly over the snare drum mic."

For the life of me I can't visualize what he is writing about.

Can someone illuminate please?

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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kel mcguire

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Re: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 07:55:25 pm »

On the second page of this article https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,169330.msg1560988/topicseen.html#new

Chris refers to "One of the first mic changes I made was switching the drum overheads to Earthworks SR30s, and from a traditional separated pair of stands to an XY coincidental pair suspended directly over the snare drum mic."

For the life of me I can't visualize what he is writing about.

Can someone illuminate please?

I use XY overheads quite frequently in the studio and for live sound both. The stereo field is not as wide but it does help with keeping a stage rig's bleed from being panned in the house because of a spaced pair of OH being closer to one of the stage rigs. An XY pair can be put almost anywhere since all the sounds are hitting the two mic capsules at nearly the same time. Also stage monitors hitting a spaced pair can do some weird things. There's a point where the subtle stereo vibe isn't worth putting up two mics for me and I'll end up with one mono OH

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Nathan Riddle

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Re: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 08:18:36 pm »

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DavidTurner

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XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2018, 08:21:08 pm »

I like using a stereo mic - like a VP88 - over the drummerís head pointed toward the toms.

I think if it as a kit mic - not just cymbals.


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« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 08:30:07 pm by DavidTurner »
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Weogo Reed

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Re: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2018, 08:34:38 pm »

Hi Scott,

Chris Mitchell knows his stuff.

Take this picture:
 https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/principles-of-the-xy-stereo-technique
and turn it upside down for a pair of X/Y drum overheads.

I often use a cardioid Earthworks mic as a single OH.
Lately I'm been using mics similar to the Rode NT4.
Often it is just a Kick mic and the X/Y overhead setup.
I recently recorded a full drum kit with a single X/Y mic.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo


On the second page of this article https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,169330.msg1560988/topicseen.html#new

Chris refers to "One of the first mic changes I made was switching the drum overheads to Earthworks SR30s, and from a traditional separated pair of stands to an XY coincidental pair suspended directly over the snare drum mic."

For the life of me I can't visualize what he is writing about.

Can someone illuminate please?
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 01:35:33 am »

I don't know about placing it anywhere. I place mine very precisely with the goal of getting the snare and kick centered in the image and getting the rest of the kit evenly represented. What I like about coincident overheads is that it gives me the option of time aligning the close mics with the overheads.

Scott Holtzman

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Re: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 01:48:42 am »

I don't know about placing it anywhere. I place mine very precisely with the goal of getting the snare and kick centered in the image and getting the rest of the kit evenly represented. What I like about coincident overheads is that it gives me the option of time aligning the close mics with the overheads.
Thanks.  I now undetstand the placement he referenced.  It makes sense too.  Very interesting article. 

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 04:11:43 am »

It's an interesting article for sure.
I do have one (slight) gripe, though. Talking of removing EQ from the chain, and then using an Audix D6, which is one of the most inherently-EQ'd mics I've come across.

I recognise the speaker he used for a subkick and it's certainly an interesting choice - a Tang Band W6-1139SI, which is a 6.5" mini-subwoofer. Long voice coil, lots of linear excursion. I wonder what the reasoning behind that choice was...

Chris
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 05:39:27 am »

My go-to OH mic for years was a Rode NT4, it's a decent XY-mic that doesn't cost too much.

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kel mcguire

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Re: XY coincidental pair (of overhead drum mics)
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 05:21:09 pm »

I don't know about placing it anywhere. I place mine very precisely with the goal of getting the snare and kick centered in the image and getting the rest of the kit evenly represented. What I like about coincident overheads is that it gives me the option of time aligning the close mics with the overheads.

Yes, "anywhere" is an exaggeration but your coincident mic pair(or stereo mic) can be placed favorably in any number of positions over the set within reason and the kick/snare will be equal since their sound arrives at each capsule at pretty much the same time. Height above the kit has a lot to do with placement of the drums in the stereo field. Obviously you would't want to move the pair laterally too much which starts to favor closer drums. 

A classic method is to draw a line between the center of the kick & snare and place the coincident pair above and along that imaginary line that bisects each drum with capsules 90 degrees to the line. A piece of string comes in handy for that

Time aligning close mics to OH are compromises at best. You can't possibly time align OH to close mics without changing the proximity distance relationships to adjacent mics at the same time. I suppose it comes down to what your tastes finds to be "better"
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