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Author Topic: Passive Wedges  (Read 5447 times)

Nathan Riddle

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2018, 05:22:47 pm »

Maybe it's your mix not the monitors (running and ducking).

Chuck Negron, Taylor Dayne, Dazz Band, Confunction and Mixalis Xatzigiannis have all used my HPR's (probably a few other people you may have heard of).  That doesn't make them great.

 :D I'm laughing pretty hard right now, great comeback!

Also, who are those people?

It could be since mostly I tell the band to download the monitor mix app for their IEM's and let them mix it themselves :P

In all seriousness, I've never had someone say they don't like the monitor or mix. I get many compliments on the overall show and they are always content with their mix. I'm anticipating when I take it to the next level and their ego (or mine) quadruples.

Also, I want it for myself, I always want better, and I'm considering two uber nice monitors to have a 6 piece monitor mix in addition to the 4 K12's I have. Needs to be able to also perform as a mains (pole mount) for smaller gigs.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2018, 06:32:19 pm »

I was in the same boat about 6 months or so ago. I wanted a truly pro-level monitor that was powered, dual purpose and under $2k. I settled on the RCF NX12-SMA as it was well priced ( thanks Mr. Pyle!!!! ), and had the specs and operation capabilities I wanted. I pulled a win I think. I ended up putting a bid in on a show several weeks after my initial purchase where the band requested those exact monitors! I was shocked to see them on the rider and was happy to place the bid.

99% of local and C level acts don't really give a crap as long as they can read the name on the monitor and it is of equal or better quality than what they could potentially own. If you walk out there with a homemade box and it sucks, then yeah, they will be quick to talk smack. If you have K12's and the mix was good enough, you have to realize that 90% of the other places and shows they have played at also utilize the same grade of equipment and that the talent running it is likely also par for the course as well. Getting a true savant sound guy that can actually polish a turd is pretty rare, so having a speaker that is of a caliber that is one step above what most any musician can afford or even think of demanding, will generally be accepted. A great engineer can add that little bit more to any situation, but any good or reasonable engineer can get the job done acceptably without complaint regardless of the gear.

The point being, don't go shooting for top-shelf gear if you are not catering to top-shelf clients. That is a lot of money to spend on being a standout and only perhaps get a few clients per year that truly demand that caliber. Making money is sort of the name of the game and having top-shelf gear will help acquire it, but you can make a lot more money with lower cost gear. I wanted to hit the middle of the field and have something that I considered to be a step above the SRX, but not quite L'Acoustics, Meyer or D&B grade. I wanted to have really good stuff that was definitely better than anyone else in my area, but I didn't want to spend big boy money on it either. I now have a dual purpose speaker that is affordable for me and my clients and is a tier above what my direct competition has in stock.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2018, 06:35:28 pm »


Also, who are those people?

You seriously have not ever heard of one person on that list?

Chuck Negron - Lead singer Three Dog Night
Taylor Dayne - String of cheezy hits in the 80's
Dazz Band - #1 Funk hit "Let it Whip" s
Confunction - Just beneath T.O.P and Roots in popularity
Mixalis - Greek pop star

I was also a joke, the HPR's are just a step above MI

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2018, 06:04:49 am »

You seriously have not ever heard of one person on that list?


Honestly? No.
But I'm a completely demographic to you. I'm in the UK, and was born in 1994. Most of you here probably have equipment older than me. Heck, I've got equipment older than me.

My wedges were recently used by Jo, Brad and Tina of S-Club 7. They're not particularly nice boxes (just your standard passive 350w 12" 2-way box from 10 years ago), but I took the time to get out the measurement mic and get them sounding decent and made sure they covered the stage reasonably evenly. The result was they were happy and put on a great show.


On the subject of passive wedges of the DIY variety, I've ordered a nice 10" coaxial driver to play with, which has enough linear excursion on the 10" cone to produce a decent amount of low end - within a dB or two of the RCF 12", although in a much smaller box.

Something I'd like some opinions on, and I think you guys might find the idea quite neat:
Context first: passive wedges, only require one amp channel.

3x NL4 connectors:
4-pole in, THRU, and Mix 2 out.
Mix 1 on pins 1+/- on the NL4 in,
Mix 2 on pins 2+/- on the NL4 in.
THRU passes that out again
Mix 2 out puts the input 2+/- on to 1+/- on a seperate output.

So you can run 4x wedges with 2x mixes down one cable with a bit of patching between wedges:
NL4 into the first wedge (gets mix 1),
NL4 link to second wedge (also on mix 1)
Mix 2 out to third wedge (mix 2)
Finally, link to fourth wedge (mix 2)

I think that's a pretty neat idea. You could go further with an NL8 input and a crapload of NL4 outputs, but I think that's getting too complicated to cable reliably on a dark stage.
Running 2x mixes to the far end of the stage with one bit of 4-pole speakOn seems like a useful feature to have. If anyone can spot something wrong with it, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Chris
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2018, 06:13:21 am »

Honestly? No.
But I'm a completely demographic to you. I'm in the UK, and was born in 1994. Most of you here probably have equipment older than me. Heck, I've got equipment older than me.

My wedges were recently used by Jo, Brad and Tina of S-Club 7. They're not particularly nice boxes (just your standard passive 350w 12" 2-way box from 10 years ago), but I took the time to get out the measurement mic and get them sounding decent and made sure they covered the stage reasonably evenly. The result was they were happy and put on a great show.


On the subject of passive wedges of the DIY variety, I've ordered a nice 10" coaxial driver to play with, which has enough linear excursion on the 10" cone to produce a decent amount of low end - within a dB or two of the RCF 12", although in a much smaller box.

Something I'd like some opinions on, and I think you guys might find the idea quite neat:
Context first: passive wedges, only require one amp channel.

3x NL4 connectors:
4-pole in, THRU, and Mix 2 out.
Mix 1 on pins 1+/- on the NL4 in,
Mix 2 on pins 2+/- on the NL4 in.
THRU passes that out again
Mix 2 out puts the input 2+/- on to 1+/- on a seperate output.

So you can run 4x wedges with 2x mixes down one cable with a bit of patching between wedges:
NL4 into the first wedge (gets mix 1),
NL4 link to second wedge (also on mix 1)
Mix 2 out to third wedge (mix 2)
Finally, link to fourth wedge (mix 2)

I think that's a pretty neat idea. You could go further with an NL8 input and a crapload of NL4 outputs, but I think that's getting too complicated to cable reliably on a dark stage.
Running 2x mixes to the far end of the stage with one bit of 4-pole speakOn seems like a useful feature to have. If anyone can spot something wrong with it, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Chris

If you're the only person to cable the stage and patch the monitors you can do whatever makes sense to you.  If others are involved (esp if they think they know something) this is a recipe for mis-patches and general frustration unless there's a way to idiot-proof it.  People other than you and me don't read labels and fail to acknowledge obvious color or pattern matching.  I'm serious.  Musicians, stage hands, possibly your staff (or future staff).  Just.  Doesn't.  Happen.

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Robert Piascik

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2018, 09:46:17 am »

Honestly? No.
But I'm a completely demographic to you. I'm in the UK, and was born in 1994. Most of you here probably have equipment older than me. Heck, I've got equipment older than me.

My wedges were recently used by Jo, Brad and Tina of S-Club 7. They're not particularly nice boxes (just your standard passive 350w 12" 2-way box from 10 years ago), but I took the time to get out the measurement mic and get them sounding decent and made sure they covered the stage reasonably evenly. The result was they were happy and put on a great show.


On the subject of passive wedges of the DIY variety, I've ordered a nice 10" coaxial driver to play with, which has enough linear excursion on the 10" cone to produce a decent amount of low end - within a dB or two of the RCF 12", although in a much smaller box.

Something I'd like some opinions on, and I think you guys might find the idea quite neat:
Context first: passive wedges, only require one amp channel.

3x NL4 connectors:
4-pole in, THRU, and Mix 2 out.
Mix 1 on pins 1+/- on the NL4 in,
Mix 2 on pins 2+/- on the NL4 in.
THRU passes that out again
Mix 2 out puts the input 2+/- on to 1+/- on a seperate output.

So you can run 4x wedges with 2x mixes down one cable with a bit of patching between wedges:
NL4 into the first wedge (gets mix 1),
NL4 link to second wedge (also on mix 1)
Mix 2 out to third wedge (mix 2)
Finally, link to fourth wedge (mix 2)

I think that's a pretty neat idea. You could go further with an NL8 input and a crapload of NL4 outputs, but I think that's getting too complicated to cable reliably on a dark stage.
Running 2x mixes to the far end of the stage with one bit of 4-pole speakOn seems like a useful feature to have. If anyone can spot something wrong with it, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Chris

I did something along these lines that worked out pretty well. I re-wired a set of four EAW wedges, replacing the dual NL4 with dual NL8 (same size) then wired the drivers with +1/-1, +2/-2, +3/-3, and +4/-4. Each wedge is prominently marked 1-4, but it doesn’t much matter. All wedges get daisy chained (saves a bunch of cable) with 8 conductor cable and I get four discreet mixes. They can be plugged in in any order.

Btw they’re for sale if anyone is interested (cabling included) EAW LA-215 (shameless plug).
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2018, 10:50:18 am »

Fair enough, Tim.
Thanks for the feedback. At the moment, most of my gigs are just me. Sometimes I have helpers, but I make sure they understand what they're doing before going out and patching things. I do see what you mean about idiot-proofing, though, and would probably find a way to idiot-proof before the wedges meet the general public. Even just a bit of plastic that blocks Mix 2 Out would be better than nothing in that case.

Robert, that's a nice idea. Wire everything straight through and then patch at the racks. Neat. I suppose if you found some switches rated for enough current, you could switch wedges after they're cabled, too.

Chris
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2018, 02:05:25 pm »

What would a rider friendly $1-2k passive wedge be?

Used Clair Bros 12AM or SRM:

https://clairusedgear.com/collections/2-way-speakers-line-array

Dave
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2018, 03:23:07 pm »


 I do see what you mean about idiot-proofing, though, and would probably find a way to idiot-proof before the wedges meet the general public.


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Tim Hite

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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2018, 02:33:30 pm »

I just spoke with Clair used department, they will provide Lab Gruppen PLM presets for the 12AM.


Used Clair Bros 12AM or SRM:

https://clairusedgear.com/collections/2-way-speakers-line-array

Dave
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Re: Passive Wedges
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2018, 02:33:30 pm »


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