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Author Topic: Cables through the crowd area  (Read 2693 times)

frank kayser

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Cables through the crowd area
« on: October 20, 2018, 12:31:36 pm »

Cables and foot-traffic is a accident and lawsuit waiting to happen.  I know everyone has faced it.  I have survived, without incident, so far.


I tape down cables where I can, and outdoors, run the cables in sidewalk joints where possible to lower the profile.  So far so good.


Upcoming tree lighting job.  At the most, I'm dealing with maybe an 8x4 snake and power cable running from a wall to a centrally positioned Christmas tree, with people, shoulder to shoulder, 360 degrees around the tree.  Run is about 10-15' over concrete sidewalk.  Using black gaff tape last year went without incident, but my situational awareness was just under the surface until the crowd dispersed.  A distraction. (Whew!)


Mind you, the electric for the tree runs under tape from a similar location.  It's thinner, though.


So that leads to the question: Can I do better?


Maybe cable-tunnel tape?
https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Yellow-Hazard-Striped-Tunnel/dp/B00BSXA59Y?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-osx-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00BSXA59Y


Would cable ramps be an improvement?  Something like:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BC7XZPQ/?coliid=IPXG9QWOIKK7L&colid=19WQTBGRADDFO&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


Yes, they'd be more visible - yellow on black.  They'd also present a higher obstacle.  Of course, these have the non-ADA ramps...


Another option would be carpet over the cables...  With lay-flat edges, and/or taped edges...


When running cables on the ground, nothing will completely eliminate trip-and-fall hazard, and liability.


Your opinion on which of the above would minimize the problems for the patrons AND ME the best would be appreciated.


A final option would be to run a Honda EU2000 on the "blind side"  of the tree and place rack mixer, lights and cables out of the walkway altogether. This option, is only possible if permission is given.
-----------------------------------
And another off-topic note: Artificial snow from snow machines falling on the surface of an iPad wreaks havoc on iPad control - not dissimilar to drops of sweat in the summer. 


many thanks
frank



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Mal Brown

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2018, 12:45:14 pm »

I have 20 Pyle ramps I use them a lot.  Similar to the ramps you linked to on amazon.  Does not preclude liability coverage in my mind...  just a due diligence step
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Bob Stone

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2018, 12:54:17 pm »

Cable ramps and make sure your liability insurance is up to date...only so much you can do.
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frank kayser

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 01:15:01 pm »

I have 20 Pyle ramps I use them a lot.  Similar to the ramps you linked to on amazon.  Does not preclude liability coverage in my mind...  just a due diligence step


I guess you like the Pyle.  Recommended?  They all look to be made by the same firm, then branded and sold.


Cable ramps and make sure your liability insurance is up to date...only so much you can do.


Yes. You are both right. Up-to-date liability ins, and due diligence.  Due diligence includes seeking out best presentative practices.   


frank
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 05:38:21 am »

I would agree with the above.  Had an incident about 8 years ago where a drunk women tried to make a claim against a contractor I employed after she tripped over cable track.  As the track was specifically designed and the contractor had the relevant insurance her case was thrown out.  In the U.K. my understanding of the law is that as long as you obviously have taken every reasonable precaution the onus is on the public to take their own reasonable care.
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Gordon Brinton

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2018, 07:10:00 am »

...In the U.K. my understanding of the law is that as long as you obviously have taken every reasonable precaution the onus is on the public to take their own reasonable care.

In the US, it's the other way around. Reasonable precaution has little to do with it. Whomever has the more powerful lawyer usually wins.
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2018, 08:45:21 am »

I guess you like the Pyle.  Recommended?  They all look to be made by the same firm, then branded and sold.

On a scale of 1-10...5.  I have some Pyle ramps too and they're not up to par when compared to the higher-dollar ramps.  My biggest gripe is that the tabs used to connect multiple pieces aren't dovetailed...so one kick and it comes apart.  This isn't a big deal when crossing a simple sidewalk (which can be done with one or two segments), but for longer runs across grass you'll drive yourself crazy trying to keep it all together.  At the same time, I believe they're still the cheapest option for "real" cable ramps, and I wouldn't use anything less.  Hope this helps!
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scottstephens

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2018, 12:17:51 pm »

Frank,

I've done a lot of tree lightings, probably 15 or 16. I know every area and situation is different, but I have found that heavy duty rubber-backed rugs work the best in situations like tree lightings.  They lay lower thereby providing less of a trip hazard and are heavy enough that they don't move. If it rains or if you have wet snow they really don't move, but become heavier than crap.

The biggest obstacle I've had to deal with at those things is power. I always have the city electric company test the "weather-proof" outlets and then test them myself later but before the event. I usually end up using 1 amp and daisy chaining several speakers  just because of the cable hazard/power thing.

Also, if it is really cold, have warm, fresh batteries. And have an extra wireless on stand by. Have a helper if you are going to have groups sing, especially kids and place the mics after they get into position and move them as soon as they are done. Talk to all the people involved including the local police to ask about parking, loading, unloading because a lot of times these things involve  streets being closed and all the happy horse crap that comes up with these things.

Good Luck.

Scott
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Rick Powell

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2018, 10:48:43 pm »

We use 2-channel cable ramps similar to your link. They do have a strong rubber smell when new, might want to let them "aerate" outdoors for a week or 2 before storing them anywhere indoors where the odor might be a problem. The other thing they do is protect CAT cable, etc. from vehicles that might run over them...before we acquired these, we were at an outdoor fest where they provided a makeshift wooden cable ramp to run our cables. Needless to say, they weren't designed very well and when a semi truck ran over them, our CAT cable from mixer to stage box started to crackle intermittently and we had to replace it. Never had a problem one we acquired and used the rubber cable ramps, and provide more positive protection than a rug or rubber mat.
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Mike Monte

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Re: Cables through the crowd area
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2018, 08:15:44 am »

Cables and foot-traffic is a accident and lawsuit waiting to happen.  I know everyone has faced it.  I have survived, without incident, so far.


I tape down cables where I can, and outdoors, run the cables in sidewalk joints where possible to lower the profile.  So far so good.


Upcoming tree lighting job.  At the most, I'm dealing with maybe an 8x4 snake and power cable running from a wall to a centrally positioned Christmas tree, with people, shoulder to shoulder, 360 degrees around the tree.  Run is about 10-15' over concrete sidewalk.  Using black gaff tape last year went without incident, but my situational awareness was just under the surface until the crowd dispersed.  A distraction. (Whew!)


Mind you, the electric for the tree runs under tape from a similar location.  It's thinner, though.


So that leads to the question: Can I do better?


Maybe cable-tunnel tape?
https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Yellow-Hazard-Striped-Tunnel/dp/B00BSXA59Y?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-osx-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00BSXA59Y


Would cable ramps be an improvement?  Something like:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BC7XZPQ/?coliid=IPXG9QWOIKK7L&colid=19WQTBGRADDFO&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


Yes, they'd be more visible - yellow on black.  They'd also present a higher obstacle.  Of course, these have the non-ADA ramps...


Another option would be carpet over the cables...  With lay-flat edges, and/or taped edges...


When running cables on the ground, nothing will completely eliminate trip-and-fall hazard, and liability.


Your opinion on which of the above would minimize the problems for the patrons AND ME the best would be appreciated.


A final option would be to run a Honda EU2000 on the "blind side"  of the tree and place rack mixer, lights and cables out of the walkway altogether. This option, is only possible if permission is given.
-----------------------------------
And another off-topic note: Artificial snow from snow machines falling on the surface of an iPad wreaks havoc on iPad control - not dissimilar to drops of sweat in the summer. 


many thanks
frank

Using a generator is the best way to go in limiting your liability.
I assume that your event is outdoors so a genny would not be a problem.
(I have never had a client balk at the idea of me using a generator instead of wires all over.)
Just explain your rationale to the people in charge.  You should not have a problem....as long as it doesn't rain..

I will always assume that if I had one foot of exposed cable on a football field, some 80 YO lady will find it and stumble on it...

Why stress yourself over it??

My local Home Depot rents Honda 2000 generators at $50.00 per 24 hour period.  Totally worth it for peace-of-mind.



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