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[Josh Dunaway]

I am planning out my next system and am playing around with EASE and realised- what is a realistic target SPL?  I am trying to spec out a line array- Likely either RCF HDL10A or HDL6A (opinions welcome). I want to be able to properly cover 100' out at "concert levels" for regional acts, but what should i consider that to be- 105db w/ 110db peak? What level do you run shows at?

[David Sturzenbecher]

I am planning out my next system and am playing around with EASE and realised- what is a realistic target SPL?  I am trying to spec out a line array- Likely either RCF HDL10A or HDL6A (opinions welcome). I want to be able to properly cover 100' out at "concert levels" for regional acts, but what should i consider that to be- 105db w/ 110db peak? What level do you run shows at?

I use EASE...a lot.   One of the things I have come to accept over the years is that it is nearly useless to determine a maximum SPL.  EASE itself has two different calculation methods that will yield different SPLs, in addition to manufactures having various methods for getting their speakers data into the program.   EASE is good for determining proper speaker location, aiming, coverage pattern, etc.

Just for kicks, map a JBL PD595 and a EVH-1152D, a very similar speaker.  I haven't done this in the last year or so, but the last time I did the results were wildly different.

My general, very broad advice, would be that if you are very concerned with Max SPL, get in front of a rig and see if it will reach your target.

[Caleb Dueck]

I don't know what EASE says, but an HDL6A array won't do concert levels at 100'. 

100' isn't that far, does it need to be a line array?  Check out 2/side T24N, 60x40 pattern, in EASE Focus. 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[Bob Faulkner]

I am planning out my next system and am playing around with EASE and realised- what is a realistic target SPL?  I am trying to spec out a line array- Likely either RCF HDL10A or HDL6A (opinions welcome). I want to be able to properly cover 100' out at "concert levels" for regional acts, but what should i consider that to be- 105db w/ 110db peak? What level do you run shows at?

Not all shows are the same... it's good to focus on SPL, but don't let it be the hub of your decision making.

I use the RCF HDL10A speakers for front fills (off the stage).  They do very well.  The HDL6A speakers are nice, however (as mentioned before), they may not be a good choice for FOH, especially for outdoors.  The speakers don't move much air.  We use the RCF NXL23A for our main FOH, with the HDL10A covering the immediate area in front of the stage.

[Rich Frembes]

EASE itself has two different calculation methods that will yield different SPLs,

David is correct. And a user does not always know what method is being employed. For instance, drawing a room from scratch from within EASE or importing a DXF/SKP file yields two different ways of calculating SPL (drawing from scratch uses the correct methodology).  It is a bug in program that I've pointed out to AMFG, but so far it has not been corrected.

in addition to manufactures having various methods for getting their speakers data into the program.

For instance I've seen two models of line array with two 8 inch woofers and a large format compression driver show a 10 dB difference in maximum SPL.  Sorry, physics is physics. No one is getting a magic 10 dB SPL for free.  Especially since the required amplifier for the latter product cannot do 10 dB peaks in output.  ;-)

Many times there is nothing nefarious going on on the part of the manufacturer.  Loudspeaker data input into modern EASE GLLs is a very complex affair.  Numerous places exist where required data can be misinterpreted and entered in an incorrect manner.

[Chris Hindle]

Many times there is nothing nefarious going on on the part of the manufacturer.  Loudspeaker data input into modern EASE GLLs is a very complex affair.  Numerous places exist where required data can be misinterpreted and entered in an incorrect manner.

The more sophisticated the software, the bigger the potential for "unforseen" results due to entry errors or misinterpreting the results.
Or even misunderstanding what exact data needed to be entered.
But, that's what Rich just said....
Chris.

[Ivan Beaver]

I want to be able to properly cover 100' out at "concert levels" for regional acts, but what should i consider that to be- 105db w/ 110db peak? What level do you run shows at?

If you are running at at 105dBa slow, then the PEAK A will typically be 12-15dB higher than that, due to the crest factor of most music.

But if you are are not concerned with weighting (since you didn't state any in your post), I have MEASURED multiple times, unweighted peaks that are 30dB (or more) higher than A slow weighting.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

The more sophisticated the software, the bigger the potential for "unforseen" results due to entry errors or misinterpreting the results.
Or even misunderstanding what exact data needed to be entered.
But, that's what Rich just said....
Chris.

The less sophisticated the software, the cleaner the calculated output result is.  Unfortunately, the value of the output of grossly over-simplistic software isn't particularly high.

When I was shopping for systems back in 2012 I looked at every array calculator I could get my hands on.  They ranged from useless to poor.  Very few of them even had an option to specify walls to tell the calculator whether the array was indoors or outdoors.  Most were 2D so you can only look at one array at a time. 

Array calculator + blind faith = poor result.  Array calculator + about 20 gigs of experience to see how the room interacts with your system = good result.

[Luke Geis]

I take the peak spl and reduce by 16db for realistic SPL. If you are running the Line array as a true full-size system ( as in 12 boxes or more ) I add +9db to my realistic spl number. In the case of the HDL6 with a peak of 131db and an array that is 12 boxes or more in length, you should be able to realistically get 105db at 100', but only just. 131-16= 115db ____ 115+9= 124db and then air loss at -3 per doubling out to 100' is 5x3= 15db in air loss and finally peak probable spl minus air loss = 109db. Fudging down a little bit for variables and not so perfect physics and you should have directional control over frequencies down to around 350hz and should be able to hit 105db, but the PA will be working pretty hard.

I did a show about a year ago with a Martin W8LM 12 box array. This box is rated for 131 peak & 126 continuous. I was hitting at times 109db a fast at about 150' and still had a little gas left. My target spl was also 105db. I was indoors at an arena so I factored a 3db gain in spl and I was about spot on.

I have been in the school of training that levels over 100db should be measured with C weighting though. The theory being that at around 100db our ears are more sensitive and C weighting is more realistic to how we hear at that level. I also prefer the show to be quieter and C weighting gives a bigger number which simply correlates to a slightly quieter show. If I am gritting my teeth, I know it is too loud.

The HDL10 is still a better bet for an outdoor gig and will give you some more breathing room. With full size Line arrays, you can generally rely on the continuous SPL as being the realistic spl they will achieve. While the whole -3db over doubling of distance is frequency dependent, out to around 100' you can depend on it as being fairly true. After about 100'-150' it starts to act more like a point source system again. Size is king of course and if you are running a 16+ box hang that is equally as long in footage, you can keep beating the inverse square law to around 200'. The smaller systems are not as long of course so they don't push air quite as efficiently.

I am not saying that the HDL6 will do the job, but in theory, it should be very close at that distance. I don't like working PA's to their limits and prefer to have 6db or more of headroom when I know I will be at my target spl. In the case of the HDL6 no matter how you do the math, it is too close for comfort not truly having 6db of wiggle room. The smaller systems these days are getting there and while a rock and roll show is typically 105db, but it doesn't have to be.

[Kevin Maxwell]

I am planning out my next system and am playing around with EASE and realised- what is a realistic target SPL?  I am trying to spec out a line array- Likely either RCF HDL10A or HDL6A (opinions welcome). I want to be able to properly cover 100' out at "concert levels" for regional acts, but what should i consider that to be- 105db w/ 110db peak? What level do you run shows at?

If you have your heart set on a line array and have narrowed it down to the RCF I would suggest that you call RCF and ask them these questions. They were very helpful to me when I had questions on an improperly done RFC install of those boxes. But for the number of boxes you would need to get the results you are looking for there are some much better and less expensive point source boxes out there. To do what you want. BTW look for FIR processing in the boxes for this. 

[ProSoundWeb Community]