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Author Topic: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes  (Read 1714 times)

Mitch Smith

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Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« on: October 14, 2018, 07:35:37 pm »

Hi, if this is already covered then I apologise and come someone please shoot me a link, but I'm really struggling to figure this out. What is the maximum amount of monitor sends that I can have using a X32? I Ideally want

- 9 stereo in-ear mixes
- 2 mono stage fills
- 3 fx.

At the moment I don't have the budget to purchases much so I'm just trying to figure out the absolute best outcome that I can achieve using my X32. This is how my Buses are currently set up.

Bus 1&2 - Drum (in-ear)
Bus 3 - Keyboard (in-ear)
Bus 4 - Front of stage fill (monitor). Old stage fall monitors used to keep life on the stage.
Bus 5 - Side of Stage fill (monitor). Old stage fall monitors used to keep life on the stage.
Bus 6 - Guitar 1 (in-ear)
Bus 7 - Guitar 2 (in-ear)
Bus 8 - Bass (in-ear)
Bus 9 - Vox 1 (in-ear)
Bus 10 - Vox 2 (in-ear)
Bus 11 - Vox 3 (in-ear)
Bus 12 - Vox 4 (in-ear)
Bus 13 - Reverb
Bus 14 - Reverb
Bus 15 - Reverb
Bus 16 - Delay

So ideally, I want to make as many in-ears as possible stereo. I have the hardware as I am using Behringer P1's but I don't think I have the desk space.

- The 3 reverbs can become 2. 
- I have all AUX's available.
- The musicians control their own in-ear mixes and I don't want that to change.
- The audio engineer controls the stage fills.

What do you guys recommend?
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Russell Ault

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2018, 10:05:23 pm »

I Ideally want

- 9 stereo in-ear mixes
- 2 mono stage fills
- 3 fx.

At the moment I don't have the budget to purchases much so I'm just trying to figure out the absolute best outcome that I can achieve using my X32.

[...]

What do you guys recommend?

Basically, if you don't have a budget, then I'd recommend you keep doing what you're doing. Taking away a reverb means you could make one of the in-ear mixes stereo, but that's about it. If this is just a monitor console you could theoretically also use the Main L-R and C as additional stereo and mono mixes which by my count (without the third reverb) would get you up to 5 stereo mixes, but I think that's the hard maximum. The limiting factor on the X32 here is its processing power, not its physical I/O, and 16 (well, 19 including L-R and C) buses is the hard limit, even if you still have physical outputs available.

If you did have a budget, you have a couple of options: for stereo mixes that the artists control you could get a bunch of P16-Ms instead of the P1s, or you could continue doing what you're currently doing but add a second X32 (even just a Core, although the Rack gives a lot more flexibility) which will double your bus count.

-Russ
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2018, 10:07:34 pm »

You have 16 busses available.  If you did everything in stereo, that's 8 mixes.  Impossible to get what you are looking for.

Now, the real question is why do you need stereo in ears?  Your vocals are likely going to be all panned center anyway.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2018, 11:25:01 pm »

I'll argue for stereo ears, even if a mono system.   I'd also spend a bit more  for the right tool for the job (baby DLive?).  The X32 isn't bad - FOR THE PRICE - but don't pretend it's more than it is. 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

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Keith Broughton

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2018, 11:09:57 am »


Bus 4 - Front of stage fill (monitor). Old stage fall monitors used to keep life on the stage.
Bus 5 - Side of Stage fill (monitor). Old stage fall monitors used to keep life on the stage.

Could you clarify what this means and do you really need monitor speakers on stage with all the IEMs you are using?
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2018, 12:18:59 pm »

Could you clarify what this means and do you really need monitor speakers on stage with all the IEMs you are using?

Wedges used to mark edges of the stage to make sure performers don't fall off??  Just a guess. :)
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2018, 01:51:43 pm »

I don't see the particular love for stereo ears, if there is that much going on in your ears that you need stereo separation then there is a much bigger problem with how you are doing your monitor mix, its definitely nice to have and makes a difference but as a must I'd take mono ears over drums and 120dB+ stage volume any day. Also for X32 if stereo ears where that important then use P16s and go direct out on most things.

To get two more mixes I'd drop the wedges, if you can hear them through your ears then that is part of the problem and if you need more energy in your ears then put up a crowd mic or two. I like having 3 reverb channels as well but there is another option there.

Your best option for getting what you want would probably be going to a P16 system, it's going to cost a bit though.
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brian maddox

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2018, 02:23:43 pm »

Hi, if this is already covered then I apologise and come someone please shoot me a link, but I'm really struggling to figure this out. What is the maximum amount of monitor sends that I can have using a X32? I Ideally want

- 9 stereo in-ear mixes
- 2 mono stage fills
- 3 fx.

At the moment I don't have the budget to purchases much so I'm just trying to figure out the absolute best outcome that I can achieve using my X32. This is how my Buses are currently set up.

Bus 1&2 - Drum (in-ear)
Bus 3 - Keyboard (in-ear)
Bus 4 - Front of stage fill (monitor). Old stage fall monitors used to keep life on the stage.
Bus 5 - Side of Stage fill (monitor). Old stage fall monitors used to keep life on the stage.
Bus 6 - Guitar 1 (in-ear)
Bus 7 - Guitar 2 (in-ear)
Bus 8 - Bass (in-ear)
Bus 9 - Vox 1 (in-ear)
Bus 10 - Vox 2 (in-ear)
Bus 11 - Vox 3 (in-ear)
Bus 12 - Vox 4 (in-ear)
Bus 13 - Reverb
Bus 14 - Reverb
Bus 15 - Reverb
Bus 16 - Delay

So ideally, I want to make as many in-ears as possible stereo. I have the hardware as I am using Behringer P1's but I don't think I have the desk space.

- The 3 reverbs can become 2. 
- I have all AUX's available.
- The musicians control their own in-ear mixes and I don't want that to change.
- The audio engineer controls the stage fills.

What do you guys recommend?

Your best and cheapest option is to start incorporating P16 monitor mixers.  You can add them one at a time if that helps the budget.  But each one buys you one more stereo monitor mix for a minimal additional cost.

The largest number of stereo mixes i've been able to realistically coax out of an X32 is 8 and that's using the stereo buss for 1 of the mixes.  That leaves 3 sends for effects. 

And i would very much disagree with the sentiment expressed here WRT mono vs stereo IEM mixes.  IEMs are not just "wedges in your ears" and the they DO require more sources in them then you would with a wedge.  The only way to get all the signals you need to hear AND separation is with Stereo Mixes.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2018, 02:40:18 pm »

What about using a second mixer? Each mixer has its own set of outputs and mixes that you can arrange from. Using a 16 channel variant of the same mixer would allow you to create another 4 stereo mixes and you could keep all your FX. Where it will get tricky is knowing that one mixer will be dedicated to one set of musicians while the other to the other half.

I would reduce the reverbs down to 2. One for the instruments and one for the vocals. Do you really need delay? Things like delay for FX in mixes is just going a little far. The artist can't control it anyway and if it's off in time, the artists can get all messed up. That is the least needed thing you have right now.

I don't envy you having 11 mixes, but with every member being on ears, I say get rid of the conventional wedges as well. It is just throwing noise on the stage. If they really need them, then have a foldback mix come from FOH perhaps to free you up of that mix. Or simply move it to your L/R mix.

The long and short of it is that you can at best only acquire 9 stereo mixes that are actually independent of each other. The 9th mix derives from a real L/R mix and really isn't a mix per se. You have matrix mixes you can use too if needed. The Matrix mixes will be the same as another mix or blend of mixes though.

In either case, you can gain 2 stereo mixes by eliminating 1 reverb, the delay and placing the stage wash mix on the L/R or off a matrix mix.

The drummer is the only one now with a stereo mix!!!!! The Vocalists are the most important ones to have a stereo mix. Get the drummer on mono and give all the stereo mixes to the singers. Does the bassist really need to be on ears if you have stage wash and he doesn't sing?

If you eliminate the bassists IEM you can get 3 stereo mixes to the singers. In theory, if the guitarists don't sing, you can move them off IEM's as well. Really the IEM's should only be for those singing anyway. If you have spare mixes left after that, then distribute accordingly.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 02:42:23 pm by Luke Geis »
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2018, 03:39:12 pm »

How about just picking up a used Pro2c and call it a day?

They are dirt cheap these days.

And yes, stereo is THE thing if you do IEMs.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2018, 05:43:37 pm »

How about just picking up a used Pro2c and call it a day?

They are dirt cheap these days.

And yes, stereo is THE thing if you do IEMs.

Or a Pro 1 - permanent fader flip!
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2018, 06:21:30 pm »

I'll argue for stereo ears, even if a mono system.   

This I do not understand.  If everything is running in mono, what does splitting a mono signal to 2 separate busses achieve?
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2018, 07:11:20 pm »

I think he means that the PA system is run mono.  I'm sure he can clarify his thoughts, but I think he meant that even if the main mix is mono it's still beneficial to have your IEM mixes be stereo mixes (panned appropriately). 

The argument for running your mains in mono is that not everyone in the house will benefit from the stereo imaging between the left and right mains (which is entirely dependent on the seating area and deployment) but everyone wearing both ears of their IEM's should have their head equidistant to the two sources so stereo imaging would still be helpful.

At least that's what I hope he meant!
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Mitch Smith

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 08:12:17 pm »

Your best and cheapest option is to start incorporating P16 monitor mixers.  You can add them one at a time if that helps the budget.  But each one buys you one more stereo monitor mix for a minimal additional cost.

I have everyone doing their own mixes using tablets connected via wifi hub connected to the x32. So I don't see why I need p16's, because they wouldn't actually add a channel?? I would still be stuck with however many buses that I have right?
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 08:42:37 pm »

I have everyone doing their own mixes using tablets connected via wifi hub connected to the x32. So I don't see why I need p16's, because they wouldn't actually add a channel?? I would still be stuck with however many buses that I have right?

Nope they are personal mixers with a Ultranet input and a stereo analog output.  They do not  use a bus.  Of course the artist is in complete control of his mix.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2018, 08:49:31 pm »

With the P16 you get essentially unlimited ( 48 to be exact ) " mixes ", but you only get to pull those mixes from 16 pre-selected channels or mix busses ( such as FX ). It is networked audio and each device is creating the mix from the 16 sources of choice. So no mix busses are used.

The issue is you have to have a P16 for each band member and all the P16's must all be networked ( linked ) together. The upside is that the artists can eq them how they want and mix it how they want and they do it all themselves so you don't have to. The downsides are that you have to have a place to mount the P16 ( usually a mic stand ) and if there is an issue, I don't know that you can actually go into a members settings and tweak it from a remote location? The biggest downside for you is that they are not wireless and while they can send a signal to a wireless pack, it would have to connect back to the wireless unit side stage. So you then have the P16 on a stand next to the singer ( or whomever ), a cat5E cable that runs from P16 to P16 and then another cable that runs from a P16 to the wireless rack. It can get real messy real quick.

A cool feature is that the P16 can save 24 user presets. So each band member can save a preset and recall it at each show. What kills it for me is the wasted space and that you can't control the mixes from side stage at a monitor position.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 09:32:01 pm »

I donít know this but I presume you could do personal mixers for some band members that are stationary like keys & drums therefore freeing up mix buses for conventional IEMs.


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Brian Jojade

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2018, 07:05:58 pm »

Another option that I just thought of that could give you additional monitor mixes would be to add another X32.  Simply send all of the inputs via AES50 to the 2nd X32 and you've got 16 more mix busses to work with.  Since you're just using it for monitor, you can think of it as just a split.  More X32s mean more monitor busses as needed.  By daisy chaining your systems, you could get almost unlimited mixes, with the only concern being the amount of latency added by each AES50 hop.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2018, 07:48:13 pm »

Another option that I just thought of [...]

I think at this point I have to ask: did my post ("Reply #1" on my screen) not show up? I mentioned both P16-Ms and getting a second X32...

-Russ
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Behringer X32, increasing number of monitor mixes
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2018, 10:10:12 pm »

I think at this point I have to ask: did my post ("Reply #1" on my screen) not show up? I mentioned both P16-Ms and getting a second X32...

-Russ

Well, you combined it in with the paragraph about the other solutions without an explanation on how it would work, so I missed it. :)
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