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Author Topic: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?  (Read 8042 times)

Jay Marr

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2018, 10:50:07 am »

This ain't my first rodeo and I understand completely. That's why I'm leaving the Marshall at home and playing direct with an Amplifire pedal. But I still want to upgrade the old JBLs to powered.

Alto and EVs get ok reviews.
New QSC CP series may be a good fit.

I agree with one of the earlier posts though, you should be combing Craigs List.  You could easily get a JBL PRX or QSC HPR powered box for that price on the used market.
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kel mcguire

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2018, 12:19:00 pm »

Side fills…interesting. I don't think I've seen a band with them for quite a while. I've always thought that the distance away from your ears meant you're battling the inverse square law and they wash out the stage mics. Anyhow, sounds like you know the issues. It's often hard to turn a band's bad habits around.

I've found K10 & K12 used for $500. I bought a pair of Yamaha DBR12 that have seen many kinds of gigs. They work quite well. The only issue I've had with them is that the cabinet construction is pretty thin, so there is a fair amount more resonance coming off the box, vs more substantial cabinets, liken K series.
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John Schalk

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2018, 06:13:34 pm »

I use the Alto Black/Denon Delta 12s for monitors.  They are a very well made and nice looking box, but they don't get super loud.  They have a 1.75" voice coil for the horn and I think most powered speakers with that size horn will perform similarly.  Note that a coaxial driver with the same size horn voice coil is likely better (RCF NX  12SMA for example), but well out of your price range.

Having said that, I have two Radian RMW-1122 monitors for sale that I will part with for a very fair price.  Pair them with an inexpensive DSP amp like the NX3000D and you will have two monitors on stage that the performers will be able to hear! 

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John Chiara

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2018, 08:41:31 pm »

Side fills…interesting. I don't think I've seen a band with them for quite a while. I've always thought that the distance away from your ears meant you're battling the inverse square law and they wash out the stage mics. Anyhow, sounds like you know the issues. It's often hard to turn a band's bad habits around.

I've found K10 & K12 used for $500. I bought a pair of Yamaha DBR12 that have seen many kinds of gigs. They work quite well. The only issue I've had with them is that the cabinet construction is pretty thin, so there is a fair amount more resonance coming off the box, vs more substantial cabinets, liken K series.
I always use cross state monitors.
1. Sound enters your ear through the side of your head.
2. I really don’t like the multiple hot spots with floor wedges alone. I get so many compliments at my one venue. The room sounds like poop but the relatively dead stage..with EAW 222’s on the stacks at head height...with SM500 wedges for center and drums..fill the whole stage area with more even coverage...especially nice with multiple guitar bands using samples. You can walk around the stage and still hear everything.
Much more ‘fun’ experience than 3-5 floor up hot spots.
After these experiences, I have big faith in using overbuilt stuff.
This place gets blowing loud and no one ever complains about monitors..except to say they are too loud.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2018, 12:16:29 am »

The thing with small sidefills is that you can keep the vocals alone in front and run a taste of instruments from the other side of the stage into the sidefill.  Helps the band hear each other without everyone turning up.  I'm a big believer in aural location.  By having vocals coming out of one place and instruments out of another, neither has to be as loud and it's easier for the musicians to listen to whatever cue they want.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2018, 08:50:04 pm »

The feedback potential of side fills should be relatively the same as a monitor on the floor in terms of acoustic SPL before feedback. The distance shouldn't be too big of an issue. You should be able to get near the same SPL potential at the mic of choice, so not really much of a difference.

I would think that a side fill would also be easier to hear and tune for clarity due to lack of floor coupling ( the woofiness that most monitors exhibit ) and the higher area of coverage. If you can't hear a speaker dedicated to a task on a stage, adding more is only going to solve one problem and create another. Basically, less is more...... By less, I mean less stage volume.

My big issue with utilizing both side fills and conventional monitoring is that you have multiple arrival times coming from every conceivable location on the stage. Big stages are not as bad with it because of the distance and the Cross Stage monitoring technique utilized for side fills. Small stages just turns it into a huge wall of noise. You're close enough to everything that you can hear everything coming from their respective locations, plus now you have the vocals and god knows what else coming out of 7-9 other speakers!!!!! Will it be heard? Sure, but will it sound good?

If you ask me, monitors are not meant to sound good, they are meant to be heard. A monitor that is LOUD, probably doesn't truly sound good; at least for FOH mixing purposes. A monitor that is heard well and easily will have plenty of midrange bark and hi-end bite, and hopefully, have very little low end to it. This makes it cut like a hot knife through butter and it WILL be heard in the first few rows of the dance area if utilized to its max potential.

Loud band = loud monitors = loud everything...... If the band is louder than you can get the monitor to be, the ONLY solution should be to turn the band down ( ala less stage level ). This is the equivalent of working with the tools you got. While more may seem like an easy solution, it isn't always the case. A good mechanic doesn't blame his tools....... Right? The tools you have are not great but are technically sufficient if you change the way you work with them. A better tool ( in our case ) can typically ensure better outcomes, but that is not guaranteed. A speaker that gets 136db peak SPL may not do any better than another only rated for 128db peak for monitoring purposes. At some point, you have to accept that the appropriate change required is not always a replacement of the tool, but a change in the protocol.
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I don't understand how you can't hear yourself

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2018, 10:11:17 pm »

The feedback potential of side fills should be relatively the same as a monitor on the floor in terms of acoustic SPL before feedback. The distance shouldn't be too big of an issue. You should be able to get near the same SPL potential at the mic of choice, so not really much of a difference.

{big ol' snip}

Loud band = loud monitors = loud everything...... If the band is louder than you can get the monitor to be, the ONLY solution should be to turn the band down ( ala less stage level ). This is the equivalent of working with the tools you got. While more may seem like an easy solution, it isn't always the case. A good mechanic doesn't blame his tools....... Right? The tools you have are not great but are technically sufficient if you change the way you work with them. A better tool ( in our case ) can typically ensure better outcomes, but that is not guaranteed. A speaker that gets 136db peak SPL may not do any better than another only rated for 128db peak for monitoring purposes. At some point, you have to accept that the appropriate change required is not always a replacement of the tool, but a change in the protocol.

With quiet stages comes great responsibility - you need a system that genuinely covers the desired audience areas; and having a good and proper mix to be delivered to that system.

/channeling Yoda
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Stephen Kirby

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2018, 12:23:14 am »

Luke,  What I was referring to is not having everything coming out of 7-9 places on stage.  From a small bar to a town music in the park show, most folks can hear themselves from their own amplification just fine.  It's the stuff across the way they have trouble with.  That's what I use sidefills for.  No vocals, so no GBF issues.  Direct keys, DI'd acoustic guitars, or mic'd guitar amps don't have GBF issues if only played though something on the other side of the stage.  The things I do, don't involve 8 monitor mixes.  4 or 5 at most.  Vocals in front, maybe split between a couple mixes.  Right and left sidefill, and drums.  By not putting everything through every monitor it keeps the stage volume down.  Folks aren't turning up their rigs to hear themselves.  If someone has a guitar amp that needs to be cranked to get the desired sound, then out comes the plexi shield.  Once they've tried this, many guitarists like it as a shield that's not too high will funnel a fairly natural sound up to the musician.  If you smother the amp in plexiglass you may get some resistance, but a small shield usually works.  The one I have is around 18" high.  So if you put it in front of a 4-12, about half the top speakers peek over it.  Enough to contain the sound but still let the front row hear the amp.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2018, 09:08:58 am »

If you need loud and cheap you probably can't find it in a powered box.

My vote is to go with the tried and true Yamaha club wedges and a smal amp rack. Amps are cheap and light nowadays. Yammy Clubs are the BFH of the cheap monitor world.
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Bullwinkle: This is the amplifier, which amplifies the sound. This is the Preamplifier which, of course, amplifies the pree's.

Jay Barracato

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Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2018, 02:35:12 pm »

If you need loud and cheap you probably can't find it in a powered box.

My vote is to go with the tried and true Yamaha club wedges and a smal amp rack. Amps are cheap and light nowadays. Yammy Clubs are the BFH of the cheap monitor world.
I have said this a couple of times but the club V with the Yamaha amp and presets is a lot better than the series reputation.

If you can find ev fm1202 used they also work well, if big and heavy.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

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Jay Barracato

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Cheap Monitors...anything stand out?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2018, 02:35:12 pm »


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