Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tim McCulloch]

Different people have different decision drivers/budgets/etc.

So you're not pissing on the party....I will still buy 'good deals' even without a true business need.  I will buy things that sound 'a little better' even if they don't make me more money.
I do make money playing music, but it is not my source of real income.  (and I fully understand that it is for a lot of folks on this board).

Why do I mention this?
Because sometimes people ask for opinions on Mixer A vs. Mixer B....and they get 10 responses of "tell me why you really need a new Mixer", rather than "Yes, B sounds better than A.
I understand people are trying to share what has made their business successful....but some people are not looking for that advice.

It's often more germane to ask why a person wants to make what is typically a lateral purchase rather than engage in a pointless discussion about what "better" consists of.  Better for you might be worse for me, because our gray-matter computer's interpretation of human audition is influenced by other parts of our brain.

I don't particularly care for how an X32 sounds but I own 2 of them myself and my employer has a pair also.  They're disposable, mostly, and so they go out on the rodeos and blowing sand gigs and other hostile environment work, and the X32 are good enough for the client and performers.  I'm not buying *subjectively better* mixers for those uses.

You're right that this forum is a crossover between hobbyists, bands running their own sound and small commercial operators.  Only the hobbyists can afford to make incremental, lateral and subjective moves without penalty (unless the significant other has an issue).

If you or your employees are the sole operators or if you have no profit-making requirements, buy and use whatever trips your trigger for whatever reasons.  It's your money and time to use in the way you feel benefits you most... and not all decisions that are commercial (my purchase of the 01V years ago, for example) have to do with that particular item being a profit center, only that such purchases can lead to better future purchase decisions.

[Scott Holtzman]

It's often more germane to ask why a person wants to make what is typically a lateral purchase rather than engage in a pointless discussion about what "better" consists of.  Better for you might be worse for me, because our gray-matter computer's interpretation of human audition is influenced by other parts of our brain.

I don't particularly care for how an X32 sounds but I own 2 of them myself and my employer has a pair also.  They're disposable, mostly, and so they go out on the rodeos and blowing sand gigs and other hostile environment work, and the X32 are good enough for the client and performers.  I'm not buying *subjectively better* mixers for those uses.

You're right that this forum is a crossover between hobbyists, bands running their own sound and small commercial operators.  Only the hobbyists can afford to make incremental, lateral and subjective moves without penalty (unless the significant other has an issue).

If you or your employees are the sole operators or if you have no profit-making requirements, buy and use whatever trips your trigger for whatever reasons.  It's your money and time to use in the way you feel benefits you most... and not all decisions that are commercial (my purchase of the 01V years ago, for example) have to do with that particular item being a profit center, only that such purchases can lead to better future purchase decisions.

Tim is exactly right, I still purchase things as a hobby, but lately they tend to be less audio oriented.

When the business started out, in my garage it was a hobby gone mad with no plan to make a profit.  Things changed, my day job tenure is winding down, more people are involved now and we grew.  If we make a bad decision on a 10k console we have to live with until it is off the books (or a serious business crisis was created).

The more I do this the more the perceived differences go away.  I have heard awful shows with Soundcraft boards and I saw Bruce Hornseby mixed on an x32 and a dbTech t4 PA and the engineer did a great job with the gear and the room.  JY made a little stage stacked 3 box Kara rig sound beyond amazing for Peter Frampton in a tough room.  The rest of the week was ok to awful, same PA, a few different, all top of the line consoles.

The skills of the people putting the bits together is most of the value we sell. 

[Dave Garoutte]

The skills of the people putting the bits together is most of the value we sell.

Unfortunately,  Everyone looks at the equipment to pre-decide the quality of the provider.
Just because you drive a Ferrari, doesn't mean you know how to take a corner.

[brian maddox]

Unfortunately,  Everyone looks at the equipment to pre-decide the quality of the provider.
Just because you drive a Ferrari, doesn't mean you know how to take a corner.

It's funny.  In Singer/Songwriter/Folk circles there often an inverse relationship between how expensive the guitar is and how good the artist is.  There's no money in Acoustic/Folk music so the Pros and Semi-Pros are lucky if they can make enough to eat.  They sure don't have the cash for a 10,000 dollar instrument.   But the guys with a Day Job and a Dream do...

[Tim McCulloch]

It's funny.  In Singer/Songwriter/Folk circles there often an inverse relationship between how expensive the guitar is and how good the artist is.  There's no money in Acoustic/Folk music so the Pros and Semi-Pros are lucky if they can make enough to eat.  They sure don't have the cash for a 10,000 dollar instrument.   But the guys with a Day Job and a Dream do...

Yeah, most working folk musicians don't have the coin for a Martin D-28 or one of Bob Taylor's custom instruments.

[Taylor Hall]

To be fair, a lot of folk musicians can do more with a pair of spoons and a makeshift dobro made from a cigar box than a lot of "modern" musicians.

[John Chiara]

Tim is exactly right, I still purchase things as a hobby, but lately they tend to be less audio oriented.

When the business started out, in my garage it was a hobby gone mad with no plan to make a profit.  Things changed, my day job tenure is winding down, more people are involved now and we grew.  If we make a bad decision on a 10k console we have to live with until it is off the books (or a serious business crisis was created).

The more I do this the more the perceived differences go away.  I have heard awful shows with Soundcraft boards and I saw Bruce Hornseby mixed on an x32 and a dbTech t4 PA and the engineer did a great job with the gear and the room.  JY made a little stage stacked 3 box Kara rig sound beyond amazing for Peter Frampton in a tough room.  The rest of the week was ok to awful, same PA, a few different, all top of the line consoles.

The skills of the people putting the bits together is most of the value we sell.

Thus is the deal in many situations. I mixed a Chicago blues act..Toronzo Cannon with an X32 on a $200K D&B rig outdoors last month.
Here is an audience members note to the management...

“This message is for everyone who was involved in last nights production of Toronzo Cannon, I would like to say that the sound was absolutely magnificent, it was so crisp and clear, like wearing a pair of great headphones, you could hear every note and every word spoken and sung, just amazing!”

[Steve Garris]

For anyone on the fence, PSSL has the UI24R on sale today for $499!

http://www.pssl.com/Killer-Daily-Deals

Well dammit, I would have bought that in a hot second but my internet has been down since Wed!

[Nathan Riddle]

Well dammit, I would have bought that in a hot second but my internet has been down since Wed!

It went OOS fast so you didn't miss anything

[Dave Pluke]

For anyone on the fence, PSSL has the UI24R on sale today for $499!

http://www.pssl.com/Killer-Daily-Deals

That's what I get for being too busy to check this forum on a daily basis  .  Let me know if you see that deal again. 

On a slight tangent, what has been the group's experience with ordering "open box", "customer returned" or "reconditioned" products from PSSL?  I ask because I'd ordered such a Gator case for my Souncraft Impact from PSSL.  They estimated a shipping date one week beyond the purchase date, which seemed odd if it was taking up shelf space, processed my payment then, one month later - without explanation - cancelled my order and refunded my money.  No response to my inquiry for an explanation.

Not a good way to begin a relationship...

Dave

[ProSoundWeb Community]