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Author Topic: Reverberant room  (Read 3560 times)

brian maddox

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2018, 01:57:24 pm »

I have done a LOT of horrible rooms in my career.  And when all is said and done, it comes down to a few basic principles.

1.  Get as much sound as possible to where the ears are and AWAY from EVERYTHING ELSE.  It can sometimes be very wise to choose whose ears are more important than others and let that guide your decisions.  [i.e. who's writing your check]

2.  Put the speakers as close to the ears as possible.  This is where delays and other distributed solutions come into play.

3.  Run the speakers as QUIETLY as possible.  More energy means more reflections means more ickiness.  This is ESPECIALLY true with talking heads.  Less is WAY more.  You'd be surprised how quiet you can run things and still have excellent intelligibility.

4.  Pay Attention to what the Client Actually Cares About.  This last one is the one we Sound Geeks miss the most. The OP mentions that it sounded lousy at the bar, but no one seemed to notice.  That means They Didn't Care what it sounded like at the bar!  Most people DO get that some spaces are echoey [their words] and they adjust their expectations accordingly.  So long as the folks in the seats hear the speech, or the folks on the dance floor are dancing, they are Totally Satisfied.  Continue to push the envelope by trying to get them to allow Delays or give you a budget to fly speakers or whatever, and they might just try to find another vendor that is "easier to work with" even though all you were trying to do was "improve things".
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brian maddox
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2018, 08:41:11 am »

I did a wedding in a very nice "convention center"
Top-of-the-line in everything, except the banquet hall.
Held around 400 peeps with the stage set up.
it was a completely ROUND room. No corners.
To add the cherry to the top, it also had a domed ceiling.
Probably 30 feet in the middle, 12 feet at the edges.
I rented an IEM system for that show,  and ran the PA the quietest it has ever run.
It sounded great, compared the the mess the DJ created when he took over between sets.
Honestly, that room was an echo chamber. You can't overpower a room like that and expect to hear anything.
Same with "our" Olympic Stadium. Go quiet, or go home.
Chris.
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Mark Baker

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2018, 10:05:27 am »

Thanks guys, some very useful information there especially regarding keeping the power pointed where its needed and away from the walls. which is more or less what i was trying to do anyway, angling the speakers into the room

theres no budget for flying anything, the stage is quite high and if i can get the tops high enough on sticks, with the inbuilt tilt on them i had them at a pretty good angle into the audience. Again good info about remembering where the important people are :) for me , making sure the people dancing have good a good solid sound is more important than trying to get it high at the back near the bar, i expect if i managed to put delays in to get the sound better at the back id just get complaints from the people running the bar.

thanks again folks.
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John L Nobile

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2018, 10:12:44 am »

i expect if i managed to put delays in to get the sound better at the back id just get complaints from the people running the bar.


My rule has always been that if the bartender can't hear the drink orders, then it's too loud. That and if I see people running out of the room with their hands covering their ears.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2018, 06:15:57 pm »


To add the cherry to the top, it also had a domed ceiling.
Probably 30 feet in the middle, 12 feet at the edges.
I rented an IEM system for that show,  and ran the PA the quietest it has ever run.

Chris.

Domed ceiling rooms are always a treat, I work in a couple of those from time to time!

When people say how great a room's architecture looks and or how the room has great acoustics there's a 75% chance it's going to be a long night!!!

Good call on bringing an IEM system for that show!

Chris Hindle

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2018, 08:31:06 am »

Domed ceiling rooms are always a treat, I work in a couple of those from time to time!

When people say how great a room's architecture looks and or how the room has great acoustics there's a 75% chance it's going to be a long night!!!

Good call on bringing an IEM system for that show!
Ya, like I really needed to add 8 bi-amp wedges to that acoustical bowl of soup.....
Chris.
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Jeffrey Knorr - CobraSound.com

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2018, 10:07:27 am »

Hi Mark,

One more tip, that might help and I'm not sure has been mentioned yet--try to keep your speakers closer to your audience.  Assuming that you can still get the coverage that you're looking for--closer is better when dealing with reflective/reverberant spaces. 

This appears to dive into more detail into the concept of critical distance:
https://www.acousticfields.com/critical-distance-in-room-acoustics/

Jeff
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2018, 10:37:33 am »

On the virtue of using tilters. I can not stress enough how much of difference these make in a reverberant room.

Yesterday I had to set up a rental only DJ system for a wedding in a small rotunda that was virtually all glass. If you just talked in a normal voice in this room you could hear multiple reflections. Without a doubt the worse venue I have ever been as far as reflections go.

The set up in the room forces you to point the speakers at all that round glass. I set up in this room previously and without the ability of being able to angle the speakers it is just a mess of multiple reflections that are almost as loud as the source.

We started up pretty high with the BT-12 tilters on full tilt due the small size of the room and then adjusted the pole height down until we could no longer hear any reflections off the glass standing about 3/4 of the way between the speakers and the glass. The difference in sound when I walked the room was amazing when we hit the optimal height.  There was still of course audible reflections at certain spots but the overall improvement in the sound was mind blowing.


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Bob Kidd

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2018, 07:54:05 am »

I did a wedding in a very nice "convention center"
Top-of-the-line in everything, except the banquet hall.
Held around 400 peeps with the stage set up.
it was a completely ROUND room. No corners.
To add the cherry to the top, it also had a domed ceiling.
Probably 30 feet in the middle, 12 feet at the edges.
I rented an IEM system for that show,  and ran the PA the quietest it has ever run.
It sounded great, compared the the mess the DJ created when he took over between sets.
Honestly, that room was an echo chamber. You can't overpower a room like that and expect to hear anything.
Same with "our" Olympic Stadium. Go quiet, or go home.
Chris.

Actually have a gig in a room similar to this but it's a bar. More like the industrial layout with open ceilings. Holds 400 and was going with my 728s and 725, but thinking this may not be best choice. Was thinking of using 812s or 15s high up on stands tilted down with couple 728s. In rooms like this even this size would think it's best approach?
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2018, 08:12:42 am »

Actually have a gig in a room similar to this but it's a bar. More like the industrial layout with open ceilings. Holds 400 and was going with my 728s and 725, but thinking this may not be best choice. Was thinking of using 812s or 15s high up on stands tilted down with couple 728s. In rooms like this even this size would think it's best approach?
Give everyone a set of IR headphones........
Seriously, aim for the people, keep from exciting the room modes. Get serious control of the on-stage spill into the room. If the band isn't on ears, get them for this gig.
My "guys" were going for a serious "upgrade" in where they could play (and charge), so they listened to everything I said/suggested. They got a dozen high-end weddings from that one show.
Chris.
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Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Reverberant room
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2018, 08:12:42 am »


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