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Author Topic: Stage monitors - how much is enough?  (Read 6026 times)

Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2018, 09:21:18 am »

Bumping this back up.

So, the 12" RCF driver is a 300w unit with a 1" HF unit firing through a 60-degree circular horn. The midbass section is okay, but very much geared towards mid-band sensitivity at the expense of low-frequency response in a small box - it really wants a cabinet that's around 40L to get flat to the mid-70s, or 27L to be flat to 100Hz.

Of course, you can just throw some EQ around, but 300w isn't a lot of power handling and I'd like to keep these cabinets as flat as possible without needing external EQ.


The Faital Pro 10FH520 is a good 10" unit that can match the RCF 12" coaxial, on account of having more thermal power handling (600w), and more linear cone travel (7.5mm, 50% more than the RCF). The FP 10" has a much more powerful motor, so can provide the same LF response of the RCF in a 10L cabinet, compared to the 27L of the RCF.

When it comes to going loud from a small box, it looks like the Faital Pro 10" is the one to go for, although the RCF does have a sensitivity advantage.

In all cases, I've gone for a similar low-frequency response to the EV XW15A monitors mentioned elsewhere - flat to 100Hz.


Now, my main PA speakers happen to have the Faital Pro 10FH520 drivers in there, so I'm going to pull one and build a prototype cabinet. I also happen to have some compression drivers that look like B&C DE250s, and 18Sound XT120 horns, so this might come together quite quickly.
Crossover will be 2kHz, since the 10"s get messy above that. I'll start active, take measurements, etc, and then see about doing a passive crossover.
I'd prefer to have a cabinet that can be used on stands for small venues, so a seperate horn of something like 90x60 dispersion would be useful in that regard. The RCF's 60-degree dispersion might be a bit narrow for that.


I also considered the new drivers from 18Sound that feature Active Impedance Control. Instead of demodulating rings, it adds a small coil that's driven by the amplifier to counter-act magnetic flux modulation. A rather neat idea, and their paper does show reduction in distortion, but their offerings don't have the power handling to keep up with the Faital Pro unit.

That's all for now.

Chris

PS - Mods, if you feel it'd be best to split this off to a new thread, feel free.
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Joe Pieternella

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2018, 07:01:36 am »

So, just out of curiosity. Did you achieve your goal!?

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2018, 08:05:04 am »

So, just out of curiosity. Did you achieve your goal!?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn G8341 met Tapatalk

Not yet. Life has a way of putting a halt to these things - a combination of the main speakers (which house the Faital Pro 10" drivers) being used 2-3 days a week every week this Summer, plus moving into a house/project (which is starting to come together now) has meant little time for experimenting recently.

A new set of stage monitors is definitely high up on my list, though - I consider them the weak point of my current system, and I'm hoping to get a new set of monitors built for the next festival season.

I'm also investigating a different angle in the Fane 15" triple-cone unit. The motor is quite weak, so it demands large boxes to do anything useful. I've picked up a couple to play with, and I'm going to try increasing the motor strength. Not sure how well it's going to work - one guy in France has done it and measured good changes in the T/S parameters, but there's really not much data on that area, so it'll be very interesting to see how it goes.

Chris
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2018, 11:53:50 am »

I've used the 10" and 12" RCFsma monitors a few times now and EVERY time the artists say it the best they have sounded on stage. 
I'm not doing anything fancy mixing or EQ-wise.  It's been with both me setting them up or the BE.
I can't speak to whether they are loud enough for you, but they were too loud for my taste.
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Mal Brown

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2018, 01:34:15 pm »

I have an old set of PAS co-ax 15s that work great on drums,keys or bass.   My front line are RH 12 and horn passive boxes.  The form factor makes them a great wedge.  I have also used (and will use this weekend) K12s.  The k12s, like some older PRX 612s I had require blocks to get them into a reasonable monitor position.  With out the blocks, they have to be 3 feet away to be heard.  Not always convenient on limited stages.  The angle on the RH box or the PAS for that matter allows for placement at the mic stand base.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2018, 05:20:28 am »

I've used the 10" and 12" RCFsma monitors a few times now and EVERY time the artists say it the best they have sounded on stage. 
I'm not doing anything fancy mixing or EQ-wise.  It's been with both me setting them up or the BE.
I can't speak to whether they are loud enough for you, but they were too loud for my taste.

Dave, they probably are loud enough for me, and from what I've heard here they ought to sound great.
However, each one costs as much as my current mixing desk. I enjoy a good project and I don't have loads of cash to throw around, so DIY is the way I do things.
If the plan works, the Fane units ought to be something special - linear-phase point source, ~128dB continuous output, in a box that's around 400mm x 440mm x 400mm (hwd). LF extension isn't fantastic (similar to the EV 15" monitor mentioned earlier), but if it was flat to 40Hz I wouldn't be telling everyone, just selling the latest miracle box.

Chris
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2018, 04:23:19 pm »

Hi Chris,

A model for your dual 8" coax concept:
 https://www.tannoy.com/Categories/Tannoy/VX/VX-8-2/p/P0BUM

Note that a small 8" box will likely have a bit wider dispersion than a 12".

Good health,  Weogo
My experience with dual woofer boxes is that unless you cross to the HF very low or do the bit where one woofer is band passed lower, they have limited dispersion along the stacked axis.  A side by side wedge will likely have a narrow pattern right where the fundamentals of the vocals lie.  Coupled with a narrow HF and enough of them on the stage this could be an advantage.  In the more typical lounge situation with 2-3 across the front, it may become a liability.
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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2018, 04:23:19 pm »


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