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[Augustine Ortiz]

Hi,

I am looking at stepping up my rig a bit to handle some larger events and of course look at improving sound quality.  I am unabashedly a weekend warrior, all portable sound in many bizarre locations like warehouses, outdoors, small venues.  Many are acoustically challenging.   I am mainly a studio guy where I produce and record 2-3 releases a month, so maybe a little pickier than most people 

But I do mostly loud rock bands and super loud doom metal bands.  So high SPL is a major concern.

Also I am usually on my own with the occasional help from a friendly band member. So I need to able to move it.

Crowd size is usually under 200 people. But I would like to be able to handle 200-400.

Currently I have for mains:
2x Yamaha DSR115 - most shows, will push into light clipping more often than I like to admit.
2x Yamaha DSR215 - bigger events, outdoors, but pretty heavy to move alone.
1x QSC KW181 for smaller rooms
2x Yorkville LS808 w/ Behringer iNuke 6000 for larger rooms/outdoors.

Behringer X32 Rack for the Mixer.

Budget: ?

So what is the next step up?  Arguably my rig is in the upper class of MI systems.  Yamaha's new DZR systems look interesting, but I feel is still in the MI range.

Is it really worth it to step up?

What about a shift from point-source setups to small line arrays or column array systems? 

[Thomas Le]

I guess a side step is going to JBL SRX800P but you get the advantage of the bigger HF driver and available tunings/processing comparable to the touring range. There's also RCF. If SPL is your requirements, I'd scratch off line column arrays. "Small line arrays" are more hassle than what they're worth, a JBL VRX system will look cool but you'll lose the sound quality compared to your existing DSR system because of the small HF driver.

The next step up is Danley.

[Rob Spence]

Some things to think about...

Will you make more money by replacing a bunch of gear?

What is your budget?

Just moving to other MI gear won’t change much.

With loud shows, going to bigger rooms (more people) means more spl. To make a difference you need at least 6dB which you won’t get just changing brands in the same class.

Tim M points out that moving up a level costs as much as all you have ever spent to date. This happens each time you move up.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Chris Grimshaw]

What about a shift from point-source setups to small line arrays or column array systems?

"Small line array" is an oxymoron. The line array effect starts happening in a useful way when the array gets large.
The column + sub speakers don't have the low-mid grunt for loud metal.

When you say you're clipping the DSR115s, are you running them full-range, or with a crossover to some subwoofers? If you're running with subs, how many? What crossover frequency?
You can never give us too much information about your setup.

Chris

[Greg Harwood]

I'd suggest looking into JTR, Danley, or Bassboss to start.  There are many other companies as well that offer pro level gear.  I personally have JTR Captivator home theater subs and can attest to their sound quality and workmanship (don't have any of their live gear, but hear great things about them).  I was fortunate to attend a Bassboss demo a few weeks ago.  I heard many of their offerings (tops and subs) and let me tell you they all sound great and get loud.  Their subs are outstanding and their tops are very articulate and clean.  You could look at their AT212 tops and SSP218 subs and have a very capable rig.  I fell in love with their DV12 tops and SSP118 subs which I hope I can purchase at some point in the future.  Danley also makes top notch stuff and gets great reviews from folks here. 

As with anything, going up the food chain will require big bucks when comparing to MI level gear.  Be prepared to spend double or triple what you would for SRX, DZR, etc for next level gear.

[Mike Santarelli]

Might want to look into some rcf ttl6a and some subs like the 9006. As others have mentioned, be prepared to spend some money. A set of what I listed will run you about $20k

[Lyle Williams]

In my view, there is often a need to go "wider" in our gear choices before there is a need to be "better".

Think of all the items required for a show.  Mixers, monitors, mics, mic stands, cables, power distribution, ...

And the truely hard ones: venue, staging, talent, audience.  :-)

In general, we all have partial solutions to putting on a show.  It can be more helpful to do more things at a lower standard than less things at a higher standard.

[Steve Litcher]

I'd suggest looking into JTR, Danley, or Bassboss to start.  There are many other companies as well that offer pro level gear.  I personally have JTR Captivator home theater subs and can attest to their sound quality and workmanship (don't have any of their live gear, but hear great things about them). 

+1, but we actually use a lot of JTR's pro gear. We have:

6x Captivator C212Pro Subs
4x Captivator C218Pro Subs
4x JTR Noesis 3TX mains

A lot of how we cover an event depends on the environment. For smaller gigs (indoor and out), we'll use 2-6 C212Pro subs with either a pair of 3TX tops or a pair of DSR112 tops.

For larger gigs, we'll use all 4 C218Pro or all six C212Pro and 2-4 3TX. There's not much that can't be covered by 4 C218Pro and 4 3TX...

For example, we've done an outdoor event at a brewery with about 2200 people in attendance with a pair of 3TX and 4 Orbit Shifters (also from JTR).

Pricewise, JTR offers some of the best "bang for the buck" out there. Over-the-top build quality and engineering, tons of output, very clean sound, and excellent support/assistance.

We also have TTL6-A speakers. They're quite nice, but weigh 3x more than the 3TX. The 3TX have more throw; total SPL in the nearfield is about the same. They do sound vastly different from one another though.

[Bill Hornibrook]

Is it really worth it to step up?

Yeah that's really the question. I would argue that LS-801s are still a pretty good sub for hard rock and metal - where their loose boomy qualities around the frequencies of the kick can actually be viewed as a positive. To equal their sheer output in a conventional bass reflex cab, you're probably going to need to go with double 18s per side. Something like a couple of SRX828s will give you a much cleaner and more balanced low end if that's important to you, and their price is pretty reasonable right now.


Next step up in tops would be cabs with a 1.4 exit compression driver like the SRX815 or RCF ART745, but there again the question is if your DSRs are cutting it sonically. Tickling limit lights is not a cause for alarm, but vocals getting buried by guitars is - and unfortunately fairly common when I listen to death metal bands live.

Trying to keep suggestions within the financial range of mere mortals in the lounge

[Jeff Lelko]

Hi Augustine, I started a thread along these lines right about a year ago (link).  While there have been a handful of new offerings to enter the market since then, the options more or less are still the same.  Danley, Fulcrum, and RCF are where my attention is at right now, though I’m still probably around a year out from moving forward with anything...short of catastrophic failure of my existing and aging QSC HPR rig.

You will find though that out of all the options, very very few are able to be moved safely by one person.  That’s assuming you’re talking larger than an SM80/TH118 or Noesis/OS rig.  What’s your budget?  Based on my research thus far for the application referenced in my thread, 20k is very optimistic.  Try 30-50k once you factor in speakers/subwoofers/amps, covers, lifts, cables, and possibly a new trailer to haul this in.  At the same time, in my opinion, this is what you’re probably looking to spend to make any jump from MI-level to be truly worth it.  Hope this helps!

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