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Author Topic: In the market for new speakers  (Read 5116 times)

Stephen Kirby

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2018, 12:36:35 am »

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for all the great replies and reliable information. I have ordered a single DXR15 for now and will possibly order another and a subwoofer next year. I have two final questions; will it be ok to have the speaker on the floor? or should I get a stand? And lastly, how much of a difference in sound quality does the dual 6.35mm input have over the rca input?

Thank you,
Nick
It will be better on a stand or "correctly" mounted to the wall.  By correctly I mean using proper mounting hardware that's rated for suspending such things like the factory u-bracket kit or Yamaha eye bolts (not hardware store stuff) and rated chains or cables.  Consult your handy HVAC or licensed electrician for pointers on properly suspending things.  I would say get a rigger but that's not likely given the budget.  Maybe it's better to just get a stand.  Use the tilt down hole and put it above head height so that it aims across the room.

There's no sound difference at all between the RCA and the 1/4" inputs.  Although the quarter's may be a bit more reliable. 
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Roland Clarke

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2018, 03:14:52 am »

The only point I would make is that your suggestion earlier of the srx 835 will be totally overkill for the size of room you are using.  The Yamaha’s will give you great sound, plenty loud enough to make your ears bleed and are very reasonable price wise.
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Rory Buszka

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #72 on: September 04, 2018, 02:04:10 pm »

Hello everyone, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to audio. With that being said I made the mistake of purchasing this system.

2) Rockville RSG12.28 Dual 12 2000W PA Speakers+Rockville RPA9 DJ Amplifier Amp https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XFRNRS2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_VxAIBbGY7WE26

The system is trash and through testing I found that on the loudest setting it reached a max dB of 85 and an average of 70dB. I'm going to return this system.

I need help choosing something else. I'm looking to spend around $500 and am looking for loudness more than sound quality. Preferably something that can easily hit 100dB and averages around 85dB or even louder is fine. You can always turn down the music. As I said I'm a complete newbie and know little to nothing. I am open to all suggestions.

Thank you in advance,
Nick

Something doesn't seem quite right here. Those speakers should have a 1W sensitivity that is at least 90 dB or above, with two 15" LF drivers active, and that's with just one watt input from the amplifier. It doesn't look like anyone asked questions regarding your existing setup to address the low output issue. Those speakers are indeed trash, compared to what folks on here are used to, and so is the amp (most likely) but they should make lots and lots of very unpleasant sound at painful levels. You would provide a more professional result with just about any other gear; Rockville is on the level of Nady, Kustom, Madison, Seismic Audio - not respected brands. But the question of why you just aren't getting much sound is one that needs to be addressed or even a set of more expensive speakers will still leave you underwhelmed.

Are you using your smartphone (iPhone, Samsung Galaxy, etc.) to drive them? If yes, then your phone is only able to provide peak a signal level of about 0.3V to drive the amplifier, which is a typical output level for smartphones. Pro audio amplifiers need much higher voltages to start delivering close to their full power, on the order of 2-4 volts or more. You will need some sort of device that provides "preamp" functionality, such as a mixing board, or a powered line level converter like the ART CleanBox (a good quality solution, or if you want to go more "dirt cheap", there are other options). Whatever you use, it should have its own separate power supply (a separate plug for the wall), because it needs the power to boost the level of signal from your smartphone or other audio source to properly drive the input of the power amplifier. Every power amplifier has an "input sensitivity" - the amount of voltage required on the input of the power amplifier to provide full power at the output, with the volume or gain control maxed. If your phone's 0.3V signal is not higher than the input sensitivity voltage of the amplifier (or the input of your powered speaker), then you won't get full power, even if all your volume settings are at "full", and even if the speakers and amplifier should be able to supply lots of output when properly driven. Pro audio products are designed to work with higher input voltages than a smartphone can provide, so the reason why this isn't normally a consideration is because even small, cheap mixers are able to provide output voltages that can properly drive "professional" power amplifiers, and this level-boosting is baked into the system (and normally performed by the mixer). If you don't have an outboard mixer or a separate line level converter (like the aforementioned ART CleanBox) then you will need to buy one.

It may be too late for this advice to save your "Rockville" speakers and amplifier from their trip to Amazon's return center, but hopefully it will help you get the most out of whatever you buy in the future. Even though what you had would be unsuitable for the needs of virtually all participants on this forum, it should still have made a lot of sound - even though it would be unpleasant sound.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 02:09:34 pm by Rory Buszka »
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Jeremy Young

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #73 on: September 04, 2018, 04:38:34 pm »

Just before I disappeared for the weekend I asked a question about how they were hooked up, thinking similar to Rory that the amplifier simply wasn't getting a hot enough signal.  The link in the first post can be followed to a dedicated listing for the speakers and one for the amp where I found a little more technical info; but not enough.

FWIW, the manufacturer lists an efficiency of 102dB @ 1w/1m for those cabinets. 
If we take that at face value, getting 70dB average at 24" would indicate less than 1 watt of input to the cabinet, so in other words the input to the amplifier is not great enough to realize the rated output of 250w @ 8-ohm. 

The OP mentioned that he's using some type of RCA-to-Bluetooth adapter, but didn't list a brand or model so we don't know whether it's nominal line-level or mic-level.

So I started looking for the amplifier sensitivity or maximum input level to determine what drive voltage would be required for maximum output, but couldn't find it.  It's entirely possible that the OP would require a microphone preamp before the rack amp to really get it to max output.  The OP may be able to comment on whether or not the signal or clip lights are lighting, but at this point it looks like we've managed to swing him into the idea of moving to a single-powered PA cabinet with the connections on it he needs to directly connect his bluetooth-adapter-thingy without any other pieces; which I think it going to eliminate a lot of issues and reduce the number of cables required. 


There was a comment about setting the dials to the max-dB setting and a mismatch of the labelling on the amp (although the pictures online definitely have the wrong printing on the label).  From the photos online, I can only imagine the first setting used was the furthest counter-clockwise above the minus-infinity setting, which per the silkscreening would indicate +24dB but like a properly silkscreened amp should have actually read -24dB.  Presuming the OP tried it in the fully-clockwise position and still did not get enough output for the intended use, then there's either a lot of magic in that 102dB/1w/1m sensitivity spec or the bluetooth adapter is not providing enough output signal. 

Then I saw that the OP is happy to return them so I gave up.  Besides, anything with four piezo tweeters in it should be ritualistically burned!


To the OP, return that junk, try to rent a powered speaker from your local guitar-center or similar, put it on a speaker tripod so the horn is above head-height, and see how it sounds in your space.  Aim it at the listeners, not the opposite walls or any other hard surfaces if possible.  Get one that has RCA or 1/4" mic-level inputs as well as the line-level inputs so you can interface with whatever audio playback devices you're using now and might get in future.  You may be surprised at what a professional box can do.  Don't both with two cabinets.  I suggested a 15" woofer model so that you didn't need a dedicated subwoofer, freeing up some budget for a better top box than trying to fit both a sub and top into your budget.  You can always add a subwoofer later if you feel you need to.
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Steve Loewenthal

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2018, 08:54:16 pm »

It is my opinion that:
1) The safest option in your budget for mounting this speaker is a regular speaker stand.
2) You can get away with the least expensive stand at your GC that raises the bottom speaker at least 5 feet. (about $30 when I looked a minute ago.)

I would suggest that you somehow anchor the stand to the wall or floor to reduce the chance that it will get tipped over. (such as an eye hook into a stud in the wall and a very small chain around the stand to the eye hook.) Should not cost much more than $2.00.

Once everything is hooked up, get some pink noise and play it through the system. Walk around the room listening for sudden changes in volume as you move about. There are going to be places where the noise combines to make it louder and quieter. (At specific frequencies.) Note where the worst of these are then change the direction the speaker is facing just a little to the left or right and listen again. You will never eliminate all of the differences, but sometimes a very small change in the speaker direction (and placement) can make a big difference. Of course, all this will change once people are in the room and start absorbing some of the sound.
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Steve Loewenthal

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Nick Martini

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2018, 01:09:18 pm »

It will be better on a stand or "correctly" mounted to the wall.  By correctly I mean using proper mounting hardware that's rated for suspending such things like the factory u-bracket kit or Yamaha eye bolts (not hardware store stuff) and rated chains or cables.  Consult your handy HVAC or licensed electrician for pointers on properly suspending things.  I would say get a rigger but that's not likely given the budget.  Maybe it's better to just get a stand.  Use the tilt down hole and put it above head height so that it aims across the room.
There's no sound difference at all between the RCA and the 1/4" inputs.  Although the quarter's may be a bit more reliable.

Hi Stephen,

Thank you for the reply I've went ahead and purchased a stand for the speaker. I'm going to try to find a way to secure it to the wall so there isn't a chance of it falling over.

Thank you,
Nick
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Nick Martini

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2018, 01:11:12 pm »

The only point I would make is that your suggestion earlier of the srx 835 will be totally overkill for the size of room you are using.  The Yamaha’s will give you great sound, plenty loud enough to make your ears bleed and are very reasonable price wise.

Hi Roland,

I was thinking the same thing. Although I found a used srx 835 on eBay for $825 from a reputable seller. I almost jumped on it, but instead went for the dxr15. Now I'm kinda wishing I went for the 835 for $200 more.

Thank you,
Nick
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Nick Martini

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2018, 01:25:39 pm »

Something doesn't seem quite right here. Those speakers should have a 1W sensitivity that is at least 90 dB or above, with two 15" LF drivers active, and that's with just one watt input from the amplifier. It doesn't look like anyone asked questions regarding your existing setup to address the low output issue. Those speakers are indeed trash, compared to what folks on here are used to, and so is the amp (most likely) but they should make lots and lots of very unpleasant sound at painful levels. You would provide a more professional result with just about any other gear; Rockville is on the level of Nady, Kustom, Madison, Seismic Audio - not respected brands. But the question of why you just aren't getting much sound is one that needs to be addressed or even a set of more expensive speakers will still leave you underwhelmed.

Are you using your smartphone (iPhone, Samsung Galaxy, etc.) to drive them? If yes, then your phone is only able to provide peak a signal level of about 0.3V to drive the amplifier, which is a typical output level for smartphones. Pro audio amplifiers need much higher voltages to start delivering close to their full power, on the order of 2-4 volts or more. You will need some sort of device that provides "preamp" functionality, such as a mixing board, or a powered line level converter like the ART CleanBox (a good quality solution, or if you want to go more "dirt cheap", there are other options). Whatever you use, it should have its own separate power supply (a separate plug for the wall), because it needs the power to boost the level of signal from your smartphone or other audio source to properly drive the input of the power amplifier. Every power amplifier has an "input sensitivity" - the amount of voltage required on the input of the power amplifier to provide full power at the output, with the volume or gain control maxed. If your phone's 0.3V signal is not higher than the input sensitivity voltage of the amplifier (or the input of your powered speaker), then you won't get full power, even if all your volume settings are at "full", and even if the speakers and amplifier should be able to supply lots of output when properly driven. Pro audio products are designed to work with higher input voltages than a smartphone can provide, so the reason why this isn't normally a consideration is because even small, cheap mixers are able to provide output voltages that can properly drive "professional" power amplifiers, and this level-boosting is baked into the system (and normally performed by the mixer). If you don't have an outboard mixer or a separate line level converter (like the aforementioned ART CleanBox) then you will need to buy one.

It may be too late for this advice to save your "Rockville" speakers and amplifier from their trip to Amazon's return center, but hopefully it will help you get the most out of whatever you buy in the future. Even though what you had would be unsuitable for the needs of virtually all participants on this forum, it should still have made a lot of sound - even though it would be unpleasant sound.

Hi Rory,

Thank you for the extremely detailed response. That's a very good point you brought up about the phone not giving off enough volts. I'm using a Samsung Galaxy note 8. For the adapter I'm using this cheap rca ro Bluetooth unit from 1Mii B06 Plus Bluetooth Receiver,... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078J3GTRK?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf . I have already sent the speakers back to Amazon and ordered a dxr15. Do you think I'll need a mixer with the dxr15 to use it at it's full potential.

Thank you,
Nick
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2018, 01:53:52 pm »

Hi Rory,

Thank you for the extremely detailed response. That's a very good point you brought up about the phone not giving off enough volts. I'm using a Samsung Galaxy note 8. For the adapter I'm using this cheap rca ro Bluetooth unit from 1Mii B06 Plus Bluetooth Receiver,... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078J3GTRK?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf . I have already sent the speakers back to Amazon and ordered a dxr15. Do you think I'll need a mixer with the dxr15 to use it at it's full potential.

Thank you,
Nick

Worry not ..... I just quickly connected my phone to my little DXR8 using the RCA's and there is PLENTY of volume there. Absolutely no need for a mixer....so the DXR15 will ROCK the gym !
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 01:57:15 pm by Debbie Dunkley »
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Re: In the market for new speakers
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2018, 01:53:52 pm »


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