ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 9   Go Down

Author Topic: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements  (Read 5267 times)

John Halliburton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 682
  • White pointy beard, knows zip...about chicken.
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2018, 02:49:40 pm »

Like John says .....(who like Art, has considerable more speaker building expertise than me...(my only budding expertise is multi-way FIR tuning)).



I do have some specific experience with these cabinets as well, having likely built them originally. ;>)

Best regards,

John
Logged

josh allman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2018, 06:04:35 pm »

Thanks, John, I'll do that.

One TD1 already has 4 new mids from DSL. The other one I replaced two broken mids when I first got them.

Later today I'm going to my friend's field and we're going to test each speaker (3TX, SRX, TD1, 153) at a distance seeing what SPL we can get, what they sound like, etc.

I plan on getting some off-axis readings for comparisons. Hopefully 0,30,60

Having a reference sounds lovely.

No worries, I believe my setup comes with a plethora of reflections.

Herm, never measured that. One sec... Looks like 83dBC/fast, 82.7dBC/slow (just a guess at how loud I made it before).

Yellow:
SPL: 82.7dBC/Slow
Dist: 28"
HP: 65Hz, LR24
EQ1: 75Hz, +3dB, 1.5Q
EQ2: 1.95kHz, -2.5dB Q10
EQ3: 3kHz, 2.5dB, 4.5Q
EQ4: 7.57kHz, -4.5, 5Q
EQ5: 10.25kHz, -4.5dB, 4.5Q

Blue is old trace for reference.

I ran out of time today, but here is a grab, this is about 100dbA, with just an 80hz BW 24db HP

I probably should've turned it down some since it was in my garage and to reduce interference. I was in a hurry...

I didn't get a chance to try your EQ settings :(
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 06:41:22 pm by josh allman »
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8696
  • Atlanta GA
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2018, 06:08:45 pm »


I think mainly my thought on replacing drivers would be the "TD-2" xover that calls for the 4550 (hoping I can swap the 4552nd=neo).
The 4550 and 4552 are quite different animals.

I would never "assume" they would be swapable with a passive xover.

Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

drew gandy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
  • Chicago and burbs
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2018, 10:37:42 pm »

The 4550 and 4552 are quite different animals.

I would never "assume" they would be swappable with a passive xover.

Yes, I believe the path length is a little shorter in the 4552.  But they are more similar to each other than any of the dome CDs.  Being ring radiators they have a considerably longer path length than a typical dome.  Of course, if some is going to roll their own active crossovers, a lot can be adjusted. 



Logged
Remember, you can talk yourself into (or out of) anything.  That's how the human brain works...

Jack Arnott

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 157
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2018, 02:26:08 pm »

Yes, I believe the path length is a little shorter in the 4552.  But they are more similar to each other than any of the dome CDs.  Being ring radiators they have a considerably longer path length than a typical dome.  Of course, if some is going to roll their own active crossovers, a lot can be adjusted.

Yes, the path will be about .6" shorter on the 4552, than the 4550. This is because the overall depth of the driver is shorter, because the neo takes up way less real estate than the ceramic. The VC and membrane are the same on these drivers, but not identical diaphragms to my knowledge. This because the plug is probably different, as they open up at different angles. (The shorter one opens up faster.)

I think you will notice a difference in sound quality between the two. The neo has a higher flux density, and the way it has been described to me, there is less flux variation in the neo throughout the power band than the ferrite. I think the neo sounds more precise.

(Edit), one convenient thing about the TD-1 is the variable output on the HF, it makes it very easy to swap out drivers of different sensitivities. I did that with my TD-1's.
Logged

drew gandy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
  • Chicago and burbs
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2018, 02:45:32 pm »


(Edit), one convenient thing about the TD-1 is the variable output on the HF, it makes it very easy to swap out drivers of different sensitivities. I did that with my TD-1's.

Hi Jack!

The L-pad was only on the full Tour Deluxe model, I believe.  I always thought it was an odd "feature" and certainly one that wouldn't be welcome in my shop. I don't want boxes in the air and then find that they don't sound the same.  "I guess I bumped the L-pad when we were plugging them in."  I can also imagine the pads getting some oxidation and not working right.  Or cutting in and out as the signal arcs across the oxide.  Best to work them from time to time?  I'm curious if you've had any issues with them? 

But for swapping comp drivers around, yeah, it would be convenient.  Remind me; what model drivers did you put in your boxes?   

I think I have measurements of the 4550 and 4552 on the TD-1 horn.  If I can find them I'll post them... eventually. 
Logged
Remember, you can talk yourself into (or out of) anything.  That's how the human brain works...

Jack Arnott

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 157
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2018, 12:56:38 am »

Hi Jack!

The L-pad was only on the full Tour Deluxe model, I believe.  I always thought it was an odd "feature" and certainly one that wouldn't be welcome in my shop. I don't want boxes in the air and then find that they don't sound the same.  "I guess I bumped the L-pad when we were plugging them in."  I can also imagine the pads getting some oxidation and not working right.  Or cutting in and out as the signal arcs across the oxide.  Best to work them from time to time?  I'm curious if you've had any issues with them? 

But for swapping comp drivers around, yeah, it would be convenient.  Remind me; what model drivers did you put in your boxes?   

I think I have measurements of the 4550 and 4552 on the TD-1 horn.  If I can find them I'll post them... eventually.

I had the 4548 in mine, the predecessor to the 4550, and original BMS 1 driver. I sold my td-1 several years ago. I did have continual intermittent problems with one box, from the outset. The position switch would not engage properly from time to time, but the volume pots always worked. I have noticed that speaker cabinets with pots seem very vulnerable, specifically powered boxes, if used mobily.
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8696
  • Atlanta GA
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2018, 12:13:12 pm »


I think I have measurements of the 4550 and 4552 on the TD-1 horn.  If I can find them I'll post them... eventually.
All of the TD1s I have known have B&C drivers for HF.

I don't know what the TD2 had in it.  I will check with Tom.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

John Halliburton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 682
  • White pointy beard, knows zip...about chicken.
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2018, 09:28:09 am »

All of the TD1s I have known have B&C drivers for HF.

I don't know what the TD2 had in it.  I will check with Tom.

I believe Jack swapped his drivers out.  A few of the first  TD-1 had may have had the old Radian 1" driver in them, but I think we had already swapped them out for the B&C as the Radian kept having mechanical failures beginning with the first Unity horn, a beast of a cube using eight 6.5" Audax woofers along with four Audax mids that we(me) had to build sub enclosures for, and the 1" hf.  Had to wire it in situ, no removeable horn.

The DE-25 16ohm is the hf driver most all TD-1 have OEM. 


The few TD-2 that are out in the wild may indeed have the BMS 1", and a much more involved crossover.  I believe Schubas here in Chicago still uses a pair, and are the only ones I know of here.


Best regards,

John
Logged

Nathan Riddle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1498
  • Niceville, FL
    • Nailed Productions
Re: SPL TD1 Recondition & Improvements
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2018, 12:24:55 pm »

Well, I took all the speakers out to my friend's farm.

Was a 'fun' evening/night. Not sure how productive though.

I had a job on Sat, so we didn't get out there until the sun was setting. Power pole was 100+ft away... brownouts with the iT8k or RMX2450 (should have brought my new 10awg cables...).

I normalized to 90dB (C) slow for all @ ~100ft
100hz xover (TH118 sub)
No EQ
No Delay

I didn't get any good traces as lots of friends were out there wanting to listen to music instead of pink noise...
The (super subjective) ranking was TD1, SRX, 153, 3TX

Most impressive was the TD1 pattern control. I could talk to someone right next to it, step into the pattern - deafening...
Some said the 3TX was too harsh, I thought you could hear guitars better than the others. Again subjective listening, rather pointless.

Someone two blocks away called the cops (we were compliant with country sound ordinances...) So we cleaned up and left.

We'll have to do it another time and I'll get real traces.
I want to EQ them to all be the same at 100dBC @ 100ft (130dB @ 1m giving 6dB crest factor for pink noise)
Then play music and see which sounds best (distortion, coherence @ 300ft, etc)
Logged
I'm just a guy trying to do the next right thing.

This business is for people with too much energy for desk jobs and too much brain for labor jobs. - Scott Helmke
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 9   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.057 seconds with 22 queries.