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[Geert Friedhof]

If the centre of the speakers is within about 1/4 of wavelenght one would expect a 6dB increase. 3dB for the double membrane, and 3 dB for the double power.

[Patrick Cognitore]

I'm sure the sensitivity spec of the speaker on the data sheet is limited to the capability of the woofer. And since the output of the single horn in that cab probably greatly outruns the output of the 15" woofer is really necessary to get the coupling in the high frequencies?

The 15"s will couple as well, but I'd also expect some uneven combining of the 15"s in that arrangement at some frequencies getting a bump but others cancellation.

Best value upgrade may be (as already mentioned) the JTR 3TX. The powerful horn loaded mid in that cab will give you clarity and pattern control that your current speakers (or almost any other 15"/horn cab) cannot. A pair per side properly splayed (with 60x40 or 40x60 horns) over your Versarray subs would probably kill.

I don't know how much i am really gaining by running my tops this way.  If someone has an idea or a way for me to calculate that, it would be appreciated.  I mean, if I've been lugging them around for just 3 db extra headroom, not sure if thats worth it.

[Tim McCulloch]

Factors to consider -

Will buying new speakers make more money by helping bring new clients that pay more; more clients at current rates; keep me competitive in a market full of new-ish gear?

Will new speakers save me money by being smaller, lighter, self-powered?

[Peter Morris]

What I have been doing is putting 2 of the QW2's per side, stacked on top, and then invert the top cabinet so the horns can couple together and get a natural 3 dB boost.  I'll attach a photo.  I don't normally stack them like this, the single 18's usually stay in the shop.  I think I was trying out the system as a 4 way that day. (subs are under the trailer for this show)

I use VR218's for my subs, total of 4 boxes.  I could do a single QW118, then stack the QW2 on top of it.  The QW118 is a single 18, then I could raise my crossover frequency on the QW2's and let the 118 do some of the heavy lifting in the 100-250 Hz range.

So even if I switch to the ART 745's or something similar, I may still need a little extra help from a single 18.

You have quite a powerful system - what are you looking to achieve with the new system - better sound quality?  more SPL? less weight? etc.

To match what you have I suspect you would be best with 2 x RCF TT25a MK2 and 4 matching 18" subs.  The HF amplifier in the TT25a is 300/600 watt compared to the 200/400 for the ART 745.  When you run the system with subs, this and the slightly higher crossover frequency will be an advantage ... as a guess almost 3dB.

This set up would give you 3 size options -  2 speakers on a stick;  for a large system add a sub and for an even bigger system add 2 subs per side.

Another nice but expensive option to the TT25 would the Fulcrum FA22ac.

If you are happy to always use a sub I would check out  Danley SM80, JTR 3TX, or TW Audio T24N. 

 

[Matt Greiner]

You have quite a powerful system - what are you looking to achieve with the new system - better sound quality?  more SPL? less weight? etc.

Same(ish) SPL with lighter cabinets.  I am very happy with the sound quality of my current system, but lugging around 95 pound cabinets plus amps for them is having me explore other options.  I'm not in an area that I have the option to demo without driving 3-4 hours.  Im willing to make the drive, i would just prefer to do as much resesrch first as possible.  This forum has always been a great resource.

That being said, if i can increase the quality of my sound, I'm open to that as well, but that's not one of the reasons to start a search.

[Lance Hallmark]

I'm sure the sensitivity spec of the speaker on the data sheet is limited to the capability of the woofer. And since the output of the single horn in that cab probably greatly outruns the output of the 15" woofer is really necessary to get the coupling in the high frequencies?

The 15"s will couple as well, but I'd also expect some uneven combining of the 15"s in that arrangement at some frequencies getting a bump but others cancellation.

Best value upgrade may be (as already mentioned) the JTR 3TX. The powerful horn loaded mid in that cab will give you clarity and pattern control that your current speakers (or almost any other 15"/horn cab) cannot. A pair per side properly splayed (with 60x40 or 40x60 horns) over your Versarray subs would probably kill.

Here's a real world example of the JTRs. This past weekend I did a show, 12 hrs of EDM dance music. My stage averaged 500 people, 200 feet deep. I used 2 Noesis 3TX (90x60 horn) just occasionally lighting the -10 light on my Crown XTI 6002 amp. They were paired with 5 Yorkville LS801 & ES18 subs. The Noesis have a great sound and go down to 80 hz.

[Scott Bolt]

Same(ish) SPL with lighter cabinets.  I am very happy with the sound quality of my current system, but lugging around 95 pound cabinets plus amps for them is having me explore other options.  I'm not in an area that I have the option to demo without driving 3-4 hours.  Im willing to make the drive, i would just prefer to do as much resesrch first as possible.  This forum has always been a great resource.

That being said, if i can increase the quality of my sound, I'm open to that as well, but that's not one of the reasons to start a search.

8 years ago, I was running a pair of 3-way 15" Klipsch tops over a pair of Cerwin Vega 18" folded horns and a rack of Crown K2 amplifiers (and enough 12ga speaker wire to require a fork lift to carry ).

My number 1 criteria was making my load in and load out faster, lighter, smaller, and easier.  I was even willing to sacrifice some SPL to get there since I rarely needed the power I already had. 

The RCF745's are really light, sound really good, and get quite loud clearly.  The 8004as sub is also a beast albeit a bit heavy at 112lbs (still quite reasonable for the output for sure).

Would it match your current output?  Possibly not; however, it would likely get close, and it would definitely sound very very good.

What my personal experience showed me was that the new system was able to cover nearly as much area because the system was more balanced and well phase aligned with sophisticated FIR processing.

Of course, it would sure make things great if you could hear the system

I suppose the deciding factor would be how often you feel that you would need more rig than just the 2 x 2 system.  If you needed more, I suspect that you could go to a 4x4 system for scaleability.  More bass heavy gigs you might only need a 2x4 system.  I don't personally own the RCF's so I am not sure how the tops hold up compared to the sub output.

My own DSR112's can handle a pair of PRX XLF subs per side well.

It seems to me that there is a point in venue size where larger, heavier passive boxes (and more of them) are just necessary to carry the venue.  If you don't do venues that need this size of system ....... man, I gotta tell you ..... a light powered system sure is a pleasure to setup and tear down. 

I can cover an outside area 50x100 at concert levels with 2 DSR's and 4 XLF's.  I can cover all bar venues easily with just 2XLF's.

If you do sound for larger events than this, I think it is going to take more and heavier gear to fit the bill.

If you could find someone locally using an SRX powered system, that would give you a decent idea of how well such a system can cover a given venue.  Maybe you could rent such a system and try it out?

[Tim McCulloch]

Same(ish) SPL with lighter cabinets.  I am very happy with the sound quality of my current system, but lugging around 95 pound cabinets plus amps for them is having me explore other options.  I'm not in an area that I have the option to demo without driving 3-4 hours.  Im willing to make the drive, i would just prefer to do as much resesrch first as possible.  This forum has always been a great resource.

That being said, if i can increase the quality of my sound, I'm open to that as well, but that's not one of the reasons to start a search.

A 400 mile round trip that keeps you from buying the wrong product is well worth the cost. Six hours of your time and $100 in fuel to prevent a bad $10,000+ purchase is a very good investment.

[Taylor Hall]

A 400 mile round trip that keeps you from buying the wrong product is well worth the cost. Six hours of your time and $100 in fuel to prevent a bad $10,000+ purchase is a very good investment.

Agreed. At a certain point you hit a ceiling of sorts in upgrading gear where you can't just rely on numbers and spec sheets to guide you. Actually hearing things and touching them can make all the different.

[Matt Greiner]

Agreed. At a certain point you hit a ceiling of sorts in upgrading gear where you can't just rely on numbers and spec sheets to guide you. Actually hearing things and touching them can make all the different.

Makes total sense.  I just found out that a friend of mine recently purchased some of the JTR 3TX and is only about 2 hours away from me.  And there might be one or two RCF dealers in that area too. 

[ProSoundWeb Community]