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Author Topic: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here  (Read 7551 times)

Steve Litscher

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2019, 01:07:08 pm »

I'm guessing that's series not parallel. With 4Ω drivers, 2 in series is 8Ω, 2 in parallel is 2Ω.

Mac

Sorry; I'm using bad terminology... I believe what he meant is that if he offers a parallel connector on the back, the drivers are wired in series for 8-ohms internally. So, two cabinets would present a 4-ohm load. And yes, with 8-ohm load, 2500-watts would put you in the sweet spot.

The best bet would be to contact Jeff directly.

He's slammed at the moment as a result of the AXPONA show a few weeks ago, so give him a bit to respond.

Roland Clarke

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2019, 02:13:26 pm »

From conversations that I have had with some forum members regarding the Orbit Shifter specifically, some owners have had trouble getting it accepted on riders.  I can't say that is why JTR came out with a double 18" sub in their Pro range, but....  I will add that David at Bassboss, formerly BassMax, builds primarily self-powered, vented boxes now, possible for the same reason.

This really surprises me.  If you are at the level where you are supplying JTR, Iím surprised that rider acceptance is even a consideration.  Perhaps itís the suppliers own expectation bias that their clients are not going to accept what they supply.  Iíve had customers sometimes ask if I was going to supply perhaps D&B or LíAcoustic, etc, etc, but Iíve never had a customer turn down what Iíve offered to supply if I told them it was suitable for their job.  We should perhaps, think more of ourselves as experts and consultants.  My job is to provide a customer with a sound solution that meets their needs and is suitable for the job.  We need innovative products to advance our industry not just plain run of the mill vanilla boxes.
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Taylor Hall

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2019, 02:38:24 pm »

This really surprises me.  If you are at the level where you are supplying JTR, Iím surprised that rider acceptance is even a consideration.  Perhaps itís the suppliers own expectation bias that their clients are not going to accept what they supply.  Iíve had customers sometimes ask if I was going to supply perhaps D&B or LíAcoustic, etc, etc, but Iíve never had a customer turn down what Iíve offered to supply if I told them it was suitable for their job.  We should perhaps, think more of ourselves as experts and consultants.  My job is to provide a customer with a sound solution that meets their needs and is suitable for the job.  We need innovative products to advance our industry not just plain run of the mill vanilla boxes.
Unfortunately, innovation rarely trumps preconceived notions when it doesn't have a big name painted on it...
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2019, 05:17:18 pm »

From conversations that I have had with some forum members regarding the Orbit Shifter specifically, some owners have had trouble getting it accepted on riders.  I can't say that is why JTR came out with a double 18" sub in their Pro range, but....  I will add that David at Bassboss, formerly BassMax, builds primarily self-powered, vented boxes now, possible for the same reason.

I dunno John, I'm kinda doubting the double 18"production is about riders.

My bet is that folks just want to dig ever lower in frequency.
And that ported 18"s are an easier way to get down there compared to horns.
A horn has to be real big, or has to be able to be coupled together with more boxes and go lower when coupled, to match the bass reflexes
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2019, 09:44:03 pm »

I dunno John, I'm kinda doubting the double 18"production is about riders.

My bet is that folks just want to dig ever lower in frequency.
And that ported 18"s are an easier way to get down there compared to horns.
A horn has to be real big, or has to be able to be coupled together with more boxes and go lower when coupled, to match the bass reflexes

The article on the BassBoss site (David Lee) indicates ported is due to physical size, not sound accuracy, when it comes to the lowest octave vs horn loaded subwoofers.  There was an article or email from them about ported for the deepest bass and horns for the rest for time domain accuracy.

If Danley could get the same performance down deep from a ported sub vs huge horns (BC418), wouldn't they?   

From my listening experiences, I haven't heard ported sound as accurate as a good horn. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2019, 10:58:28 pm »

The article on the BassBoss site (David Lee) indicates ported is due to physical size, not sound accuracy, when it comes to the lowest octave vs horn loaded subwoofers.  There was an article or email from them about ported for the deepest bass and horns for the rest for time domain accuracy.

If Danley could get the same performance down deep from a ported sub vs huge horns (BC418), wouldn't they?   

From my listening experiences, I haven't heard ported sound as accurate as a good horn.

Most folks (including a bunch of LABsters) have no idea what clean & accurate bass (up to about 100 Hz) sounds like.  They're accustomed to coloration and distortion, esp 2nd and 3rd harmonics.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2019, 03:47:51 am »

If you stay -6dB from the limiters (ie, you've brought twice as many subs as needed) you're still using half of the available cone excursion. I'd expect significant distortion percentages from the drivers even if it's in their so-called linear region.

Let's not forget - we're waving bits of cardboard around with magnets.


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Roland Clarke

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2019, 04:25:28 am »

Iím a long term lover of 1/4 wave stuff, lack of distortion and the weight you can get, none of the chuff that ported systems mostly suffer from.  You can get low bass from alternative systems without getting large, but itís the same old syndrome.  Small size, SPL, Low frequency,  pick two.  Even reflex cabs arenít immune to this.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2019, 05:52:31 am »

The article on the BassBoss site (David Lee) indicates ported is due to physical size, not sound accuracy, when it comes to the lowest octave vs horn loaded subwoofers.  There was an article or email from them about ported for the deepest bass and horns for the rest for time domain accuracy.

If Danley could get the same performance down deep from a ported sub vs huge horns (BC418), wouldn't they?   

From my listening experiences, I haven't heard ported sound as accurate as a good horn.

I think we donít we are necessarily making the correct distinctions.  Bass ďhornsĒ are for all intents and purposes a fallacy as regards what we use in pro audio.  True horns need extreme mouth areas to reproduce very low frequency, hence why horns stacked in multiples do improve extension.  The reality of all practical horns we use are that they are deriving their bass from the horn length, effectively making them a 1/4 wave design.  Tapped horns, scoops, rear loaded, front loaded are all only variants of the same physical phenomena.  True bass horns, as I understand, require a reasonably gentle expansion rate, therefore they would exhibit significant delay rendering them of no practical use for live systems.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2019, 08:17:11 am »

I think we donít we are necessarily making the correct distinctions.  Bass ďhornsĒ are for all intents and purposes a fallacy as regards what we use in pro audio.  True horns need extreme mouth areas to reproduce very low frequency, hence why horns stacked in multiples do improve extension.  The reality of all practical horns we use are that they are deriving their bass from the horn length, effectively making them a 1/4 wave design.  Tapped horns, scoops, rear loaded, front loaded are all only variants of the same physical phenomena.  True bass horns, as I understand, require a reasonably gentle expansion rate, therefore they would exhibit significant delay rendering them of no practical use for live systems.
Multiple bass horns do not provide as much "extension" as people would like to think that they do.

The short horns (the ones used in PA applications) are made that size to enable a practical size.

This can cause ripples in the response down on the bottom, because the horn is not providing enough loading to the driver.

What really happens when you use multiples is that that the larger mouth starts to fill in the ripples.  So the overall "low end response" may appear louder (because it is smoother), but it really doesn't get much lower.

YES, the lower freq will be louder, but so will the rest of the response (due to the additional cabinets), but the actual -3dB point will not change much.

Remember that -3dB has NOT actual SPL value.  It is only a RELATIVE level that MUST be associated with some OTHER freq and level.

Without that reference, it could be anything.

So while ported cabinets may "appear" to go lower (the -3dB point may be lower), they may or may not be quieter at those freq than a horn cabinet that has a higher -3dB point.

It is a combination of the sensitivity, the freq response, the impedance and the power capacity that gives the REAL answer, NOT a simple number.

You MUST look at several factors, NOT just a simple single number to get an idea of how loud a particular cabinet will be at a specific freq.

A simple answer to a complex question often results in a wrong answer.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
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Re: JTR releases new 2x18 Subwoofers - info here
¬ę Reply #39 on: May 09, 2019, 08:17:11 am ¬Ľ


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