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[George Reiswig]

Learn to use a voltmeter and what to expect in a given receptacle-even if you have to draw a picture and write down the readings.  I've been a licensed electrician for a couple of decades
IMO, learning to use and interpret basic voltmeter readings is very high ROI education wise for keeping things in line.  There are handy dandy testers out there-but nothing beats a voltmeter that you know how to read-even if that knowledge is basic.

Yup...I bring my trusty Fluke to gigs. Good tips about checking ground to neutral! Thanks again.

[John Schalk]

4 - DB Technologies IG4T's (900W each)
1 - Bassboss VS21 (2400W)
4 - Yamaha DXR10 (1100W each)
1 - good-sized bass amp (700W)
500-600W in LED lighting, plus the mixer, various rack gear, etc.

The total wattage for your PA elements adds up to 10,400 watts.  That's nearly identical to the 10,100 total watts for a band's rig that I used for over 3 years, and we ran our PA, Lights, and Backline on two dedicated 20 amp circuits.  The PA consisted of one PSoft M30D (highs @ 8 ohms), one K3 for lows (@ 8 ohms), one K3 for subs (@ 4ohms) and one Crest 7001 for the buttkicker (one channel @ 4 ohms).  I was able to find power draw specs for all of these amps and they add up to 21.1 amps for 1/8 pink noise duty.

Our backline consisted of two Marshall half stacks and one 4 x 10" bass rig.  No monitors as the band used IEMs.  We had four 4-par bars for a total of 16 Chauvet SlimPAR 64s and four small movers.  Chauvet lists the current draw as 0.3 amps so that adds up to 4.8 amps total!  All of this ran fine on two separate and dedicated 20 amp circuits across multiple venues.  We always ran the hazer(s) from a third circuit if one was available.  Otherwise, no smoke.

I think your full rig with sound, lights, and backline will also run on two circuits.  My advice would be to try it at a venue where you are using the full PA and will be "pushing" things a bit, volume wise.  I used a Breaker Buddy to identify two different circuits whenever we played at a new venue and, for the most part, we did not have any issues with power for our gigs. 

[Tim McCulloch]

Thank you! I really need to learn this stuff, not maintain the "know just enough to be dangerous" status I have. For one thing, what is a 3-phase Delta system, what the hot leg of that system is, etc. I'll Google. But another thing that occurs to me is whether or not I need to be concerned about the relative phase, given that different outlets on the Yellow Box are going to be fed by a different phase of the 3-phase system? Much to learn.

Delta- transformer secondary windings, 3, in a triangle representation (delta).  There are a variety of ways to use this service as-is, (look for "high leg delta"), but in entertainment delta service is usually to the primary of a transformer and the transformer secondary is set up for 120/208 "wye" service.  You are unlikely to encounter a 240v delta service outside of commercial/industrial settings, except in some light commercial spaces where high leg delta was used.

The 3 phase service most often provided is 120/208 Wye, where any line to neutral will measure 120V (nominally), and line to line will be 208V.

[Jonathan Hole]

Great technical advice on this thread, not much more to add other than I'll tell you what we have on our rider and our experience. 

I provide FOH and production for a regional cover band and play a range of venues across 4-5 states. Often we're self-contained and production is provided, typically 1000+, so I have a self-contained section in our rider outlining stage power requirements, explain we'll bring everything (mics, stage cabling, IEM, mixer, stands) and can send them their choice of LR,sub, fill outs.  As our audience / venue size grows and certainly some festivals; we're seeing more of these and it's a win-win for us all as we have a complicated mix and setup and the provider gets an easy night, we can sound check in 0-15 minutes, and easy on me as can leave trailer at home and no heavy stuff.

Our full production is Danley tops/subs powered by Powersoft K3/K10 with typical 5 piece band gear, digital mixer and stage boxes, two downstage backup monitors (band is full IEM) and roughly 16 LED pars, 4 movers in our lighting rig, plus hazer.  I state that I strongly prefer 50A service but that if 50A service is unavailable then I require 3 x 20A dedicated circuits within 25 feet of stage and I explain that dedicated means no sharing with food trucks, catering, other vendors, etc.  Most of our venues where we provide are outdoor up to 1,000 seat amphitheaters, we hit them every year and most have 50A via range plug service but we do some smaller shows when the $ are right. 

In a terrible pinch I've dialed back to one 20A outlet and cranked the PS amps down and halved the lights just to get by. (a tropical storm barreled down on us on a coastal island near Charleston SC a few years back, the tent rental company called the venue unsafe 6 hours before the gig (wedding reception) and we evacuated to an old event hall the planner knew of in town and only had one 20A but made it thru!). 

Also our booking agent is aware of our needs/rider and if anything comes up from our rider concerning adequacy of power they will have them reach out to me prior to booking to talk thru the venue, crowd size, etc.  So getting way out in front helps a great deal and we can discuss if a generator is indicated or if we can fit on 2x20A for their size, hold back a bit, etc.  So I say hold your line on the rider and then you can talk thru one-offs live and if makes sense agree otherwise.

[George Reiswig]

All of this has been very, very helpful. I have a better idea for how to spec out power requirements.

Now if any of y'all would be willing to share a short, to-the-point example of your own rider so I can copy and capitalize on your hard work, I would owe you a beer! (Seriously, if in Portland, OR...I owe everyone here a beer, pretty much)

[Brian Jojade]

All of this has been very, very helpful. I have a better idea for how to spec out power requirements.

Now if any of y'all would be willing to share a short, to-the-point example of your own rider so I can copy and capitalize on your hard work, I would owe you a beer! (Seriously, if in Portland, OR...I owe everyone here a beer, pretty much)

Venue will provide minimum 50 amp single phase 120/240v service via Nema L-14-50, California connector. Camlock connections or dedicated disconnect are also accepted.

Simple.  If they can't provide that, then we can start having discussions on the options.  The event I'm working this weekend said they'd have their systems upgraded during the walk through a year ago. Initial estimate to install was around $600. Reminded them about it in March, and the upgrade was specified in the contract. I arrived Monday, (Thursday show start) the specified upgrades weren't done. $2500 later they found an electrician to replace and upgrade panels by Wednesday morning and we're smooth sailing for the weekend.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Venue will provide minimum 50 amp single phase 120/240v service via Nema L-14-50, California connector. Camlock connections or dedicated disconnect are also accepted.

I'll just highlight that there's a difference between NEMA L14-50 and NEMA 14-50. The L14-50 is a "twist lock" connector; the 14-50 is a "range plug" with straight blades. Either one provides the same power capabilities (two hot legs, neutral, ground; 120V hot leg to neutral and 208V or 240V leg-to-leg at 50 amps per leg), but L14-50 indicates a more "professional" installation. The non-locking 14-50 plugs almost always (maybe always) have the cord exiting the cap at a right angle, whereas the locking L14-50 plug has the cord exiting the rear of the cap.

As I understand it, NEMA L14-50 is the same prong configuration as the "California" 125/250V 50A connector, but there aren't really any true "NEMA L14-50" connectors. There are different CS numbers depending on form factor:

• CS6365 is a cord-end plug (male)
• CS6375 is a panel-mount inlet (male)
• CS6364 is a cord-end receptacle (female)
• CS6369 is a panel-mount receptacle (female)

The above is specifically for California-style connectors rated for 125/250V split single phase (but also used on two legs and neutral of three phase wye service). Note that there are "California Standard" connectors for other voltage/amperage/phase services, so just specifying "California" is ambiguous.

I wrote the above based on "internet research". I don't have personal experience dealing with the locking 50A connectors, so I sincerely hope that people more knowledgeable than me will correct any misinformation contained herein.

While it's great to specify something in the rider, it's even better to verify with an onsite walkthrough in advance of the show (bring your voltmeter!)  that the power is available as specified and agreed to.

[Brian Jojade]

Yup, typo in my post. The L14-50 is a unicorn connector. It’s similar but different than the California connector. I have never seen one in the wild.

[Ed Hall]

IMO, learning to use and interpret basic voltmeter readings is very high ROI education wise for keeping things in line.  There are handy dandy testers out there-but nothing beats a voltmeter that you know how to read-even if that knowledge is basic.

As my father said, "Education always costs. You don't always pay with tuition."

[ProSoundWeb Community]